Bah Humbug - Clarkson

[Nat101]

and fyi, i'm not gay, but i would clarkson.

DaBeeeenster, I think you're out on a limb here. Clarkson is obviously not short of asinine jokes aimed in part as a slight against the political left. Unless you want a pretty boring job for life, I wouldn't bother sending your objections to the Beeb.

OK, impairment was at the crux of this one, but again, the joke was at the expense of Political Correctness at least as much as it was at the expense of the physically disabled. Political Correction is to the bigoted right as a red rag is to a bull; would Clarkson make these jokes quite so often if he didn't have a political target in mind?

Yes, Clarkson puts one in mind of an irritating Young Conservative public school boy, but at the end of the day, he is more than slightly aware of the irony. I find Top Gear very entertaining and I'm not even into cars... But when he makes me chuckle, I'm usually doing so partially at his expense, as I believe is usually intended. And I would agree that electric/hybrid cars are a waste of time and resourses in the short term - biodiesel is a far better option in this sense.

[herulach]

I addressed the point of plastics earlier on, but i was talking about the actual machinery rather than the raw materials. Ive thought of a counter example though, fork lift trucks, i dont think ive seen an electric one, they usually run on camping gas, however im pretty certain an electric forklift would be easy to make.

edit:just read the last line of that. doh

Industry is pretty darn reliant on fossil fuels - for example:

"The Basics of Plastic Manufacturing

The term "plastics" encompasses organic materials, such as the elements carbon (C), hydrogen (H), nitrogen (N), chlorine (Cl) and sulfur (S), which have properties similar to those naturally grown in organic materials such as wood, horn and rosin. Organic materials are based on polymers, which are produced by the conversion of natural products or by syththesis from primary chemicals coming from oil, natural gas or coal."

BUT - I hasten to add - it's perfectly possible to generate electricity itself from many other sources, and many of them are already in use to some degree. So, depending on which part of the sentence he was ignoring he's right and so are you.
I think it's true to say we're massively reliant on fossil fuels right now - but that's ok since they're not going to suddenly cease to be in 10 years time (even with China's expected growth) and there's a massive push to look for alternatives now which I think will lead to other fuel sources becoming dominant before fossil fuels are depleted (as the technology and processes fall into place to make it efficient to extract them [e.g. hydrogen]).

Crap I just went back and read your own post and not his select quote - sorry - I agree with you m8

[TheAnimus]

the whole peak oil idea, surely the only time that will happen is when the only oil thats left is so hard to get too, the trasnport/manafacturing infrastructure can't get to the oil without spending more oil.

[dangel]

I addressed the point of plastics earlier on, but i was talking about the actual machinery rather than the raw materials. Ive thought of a counter example though, fork lift trucks, i dont think ive seen an electric one, they usually run on camping gas, however im pretty certain an electric forklift would be easy to make.

edit:just read the last line of that. doh

LOL Well at least we agree with each other

Electric forklifts? Yup i've seen them in warehouses i've worked in Quite common as they're quieter and don't produce emissions in a closed environment. Even the yanks have them: http://www.crown.com/usa/products/index.html

[Steve A]

Oh dear. Someone else with their head in the sand. You think oil is a limitless resource, do you?

Although i do agree that the oil supply isnt limitless, for example, why do you thing places like dubai are putting all there money into tourism, that is because there oil supply is running out, and as for the invalid comment , yes i think electic cars are the way forward in terms of global warming, for me they are not for "invalids" but then again i did see the humour in it and im sure clarkson wasn't trying to be "political" just trying to be funny and to get people like us talking about his show ....

[herulach]

to put the whole invalid carriage thing to bed. The original invalid carriage:
http://www.virtualgaz.co.uk/invacarpage.htm
Cameron with the car in question:
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/green...760328,00.html

Striking similarity? I think so.

[badass]

I'm basing most of my opinions on the The IPCC reports - http://www.ipcc.ch/.

Dont make assumptions about what evidence I have or have not read. It's extremely rude.

Clarkson is an offensive Luddite.

You take the evidence of:
1. A bunch of people whose funding is entirely dependant on convincing everyone that climate change is man made
2. Has a website that doesn't work
as good?
And you accuse everyone else of burying their heads in the sand

[DaBeeeenster]

the whole peak oil idea, surely the only time that will happen is when the only oil thats left is so hard to get too, the trasnport/manafacturing infrastructure can't get to the oil without spending more oil.

That's precisely correct. This is happening now. Oil in the US peaked decades ago, for this very reason.

[DaBeeeenster]

Youre getting good at ignoring vast chunks of the post arent you? What exactly is false about that statement? Name one industry that uses fossil fuels for anything other than transport? The only thing you might have a point with is a steel works, but i cant think of anything else.

Or were you saying that it isnt possible to generate electricity without fossil fuels? In which case, youre just being bloody minded.

Erm, any industry that makes use of:

Plastics
Fertilizer
Pesticides
Any form of automated processing

Erm, that's just about every industry in the world. Just think about the computer you are reading this post on. What is the keyboard made out of? What materials were needed to build the CPU? How were they mined? How did the screen get to you? What is it powered by? How are the fans powered? What are the fans made out of? What is the PCB made out of?

You said that electricity was "easily" made without fossil fuels. That's simply not correct. Unless you think that building nuclear power stations is something that you can do "easily".

If you cant think of any other industry that uses fossil fuels, you are not thinking very hard.

[DaBeeeenster]

You take the evidence of:
1. A bunch of people whose funding is entirely dependant on convincing everyone that climate change is man made
2. Has a website that doesn't work
as good?
And you accuse everyone else of burying their heads in the sand

The IPCC is probably based on work of the largest collection of scientists ever brought together for 1 project (possibly with the exception of the Manhattan Project). If you choose to ignore the work of all these disparate science groups, and the opinions of almost every scientist alive, that's your choice.

[herulach]

Erm, any industry that makes use of:

Plastics
Fertilizer
Pesticides
Any form of automated processing

Theyre not fossil fuels though are they? Theyre oil based products, which ive already mentioned repeatedly

Erm, that's just about every industry in the world. Just think about the computer you are reading this post on. What is the keyboard made out of? What materials were needed to build the CPU? How were they mined? How did the screen get to you? What is it powered by? How are the fans powered? What are the fans made out of? What is the PCB made out of?

Again, plastics, oil based yet, but not exactly fuel.

You said that electricity was "easily" made without fossil fuels. That's simply not correct. Unless you think that building nuclear power stations is something that you can do "easily".

Building a nuclear power plant isnt any harder than building a coal one, tide and wind power easier still.

[dangel]

Any-way.. this clarkson bloke..

[DaBeeeenster]

Theyre not fossil fuels though are they? Theyre oil based products, which ive already mentioned repeatedly

Again, plastics, oil based yet, but not exactly fuel.

But they are the same thing!?!?!?!

Building a nuclear power plant isnt any harder than building a coal one, tide and wind power easier still

Now you have to be joking...?

[herulach]

But they are the same thing!?!?!?!

They are, i didnt disagree, i even made the same point about plastics myself.

Now you have to be joking...?

Maybe not quite as easy a coal fired plant then, but certainly theres nothing stopping it. infact the biggest obstacle in the way of nuclear power is people's not in my back yard mentality.

[TheAnimus]

Now you have to be joking...?

You actually ever been to a coal fired power station?
After been to didcot-a i can tell you that gas is MUCH simpler. (as didcot has both gas and coal on site).

nuclear isn't much harder either, i mean jinkies they can squish it all down to sub friendly size!

Often the biggest most difficult component, where waste most occurs is in fact, the generators. These are very expensive, difficult to manifacture + understand the effects of what the wire winding in practice will entale. And worst of all, moving parts. You clearly have no idea about basic electronics at all.

The point i was making about the idea of peaking oil, theres still plenty left, its just its harder to get too. If you think the oil industry dosen't spend sheadloads researching more effictive collection methods your really not looking at the wider perspective.

[DaBeeeenster]

They are, i didnt disagree, i even made the same point about plastics myself.

So you stated that industry only uses fossil fuels for transport, yet agree that fossil fuels and carbon based products are the same thing, so my point stands. Almost EVERYTHING that we produce is touched by fossil fuels. Many things drastically so.

Maybe not quite as easy a coal fired plant then, but certainly theres nothing stopping it. infact the biggest obstacle in the way of nuclear power is people's not in my back yard mentality.

Ah yes...