City Bonus - Why does the UK media hate it?

[badass]

Ok, one quick question... well two actually...

Just what IS it that happens to a bank for it to cost £35 when I have a DD returned?

Because the banks are illegally creaming profit from you

Oh, and while you're on, why is it that despite funds from a cheque showing in my account, I can't actually draw against them for two more working days?

Thats because the banks are legally creaming money off you.

I'd be particularly interested in the answer to the first one... perhaps than I'll be more sympathetic towards big bonuses...

Thats not connected to these city bonuses.

By the way, hope you work for the Co-op bank... ethical banking practises and all that, not one of those banks that invest in ill gotten gains, profiteering off misery and corrupt regimes....

[herulach]

Ok, one quick question... well two actually...

Just what IS it that happens to a bank for it to cost £35 when I have a DD returned?

FIrst of were talking about investment banks, which arent the same as retail/business banks.

A dd being unpaid, which is i assume what you mean, means someone has to check your ledger, see if youre likely to have funds coming in, then make the decision whether to unpay it or not, its all peoples time that has to be paid for.

Oh, and while you're on, why is it that despite funds from a cheque showing in my account, I can't actually draw against them for two more working days?

Youre joking right? because your mate could have written you a cheque for a million quid, out a stop on it, and youve drawn it all and closed your account, the banks left with a ton of money to right of and you have a nicely bulging wallet.

I'd be particularly interested in the answer to the first one... perhaps than I'll be more sympathetic towards big bonuses...

By the way, hope you work for the Co-op bank... ethical banking practises and all that, not one of those banks that invest in ill gotten gains, profiteering off misery and corrupt regimes....

Hardly, coop are as big business evil as anyone, however, by the sound of it you reckon that anyone in financial services profits of misery & corruption, so there you go.

[TheAnimus]

Just what IS it that happens to a bank for it to cost £35 when I have a DD returned?

Oh, and while you're on, why is it that despite funds from a cheque showing in my account, I can't actually draw against them for two more working days?

That would be commercial banks.

These bonus are for investment banks and the like, not commercial banks.

Co-op bank,well i know lots of gossip and un-substansiated conjecture. But seriously i don't consider it to be a worthwhile substitute to ethics.

Now some people are saying that been in investment banking isn't as worth while as a carer, and they give nothing back to the community. You obviously know very little about the real world. How does most tax get to be paid? Now i'm not saying without the city sunshine lollypops and rainbows would cease to be, but remeber how many hospital/invasions they pay for.

Care works, no offense are often lazy and stupid compared to someone earning millions, thats not too say they all are, but the majority of investment bankers work a lot harder.

Investing is good. It pays off for both parties, it creates more jobs, and provides that consumer driven life improvement. Without it pensions would be meaningless (not that there isn't a defecit).

Ambulance workers again do not work anything like as long hours, or as had, there are also more people willing to do it, so it pays less.

A care worker actually has very little responsibility, and as such gets paid less because of this. This makes sense.

Upshot, if you had a choice between care workers and the city, choosing care workers would kill more people through starvation very swiftly.

Now a lot of people have a chip on their shoulder because they have a badly paid job, and are often too stupid too understand how the city contributes to life, and the work required by people like thouse i work for (getting off at 7pm too tired to go out, is a half day to them).

[Rack]

A care worker actually has very little responsibility, and as such gets paid less because of this. This makes sense.

Upshot, if you had a choice between care workers and the city, choosing care workers would kill more people through starvation very swiftly.

Get of your high horse mate, investment bankers might help global business work, and keep the economy going, but so do a lot of other things - it's just a more direct involvement.
Without truck drivers all our food to ASDA/Sainsburies/Tescos would stop... truck drivers keep me fed. In that case a truck driver is as important to me as an investment banker. Or a farmer for that matter....

There may be a percentage of lazy people in all industries, and I'm sure the lazy investment bankers also are never millionaires, but the hardworking dedicated people in all of these other sectors will never see a 6-figure salary let alone a 7-figure bonus. Even if they work 12-18 hours a day (I know some people that do) they don't get any more pay.

And responsibility?? what responsibility does an investment banker have towards the people who's jobs depend on him other than a performance review?? How about being held directly responsible for the lives of people you deal with?

OK, I understand they contribute as a important part of a chain. They fund businesses RUN BY OTHER PEOPLE who employ people - do not make it sound like they magically create jobs for the good of the community. And it's not like they actually made the money being used to run the business either. If they make mistakes they lose salary. They stimulate growth, but they are in the middle of Money and People Who Need Money...

At the end of the day, I think it's great there is an industry where you can work really really hard and get paid really well for that. But I still think these figures are out of proportion.

[JPreston]

....

Ambulance workers again do not work anything like as long hours, or as had, there are also more people willing to do it, so it pays less.

...

That is the dumbest thing I have ever read. If 'willingness' was the only consideration why would there be more people queuing up to drive ambulances, undercutting each other and thus reducing their own pay, but remaining 'unwilling' to work in a bank for £millions? Do me a favour.

Try as you like - it is impossible to justify an organisation paying one individual a £50million bonus, while the same organisation does not pay the cleaners even a living wage.

This situation is not because the cleaners are lazy and stupid, they 'work harder' than the bankers FFS, it's because there are vast inequalities in education and opportunities. It's largely an accident of history whether a child grows up to be a trader or a cleaner. The recent trend - and it is a recent trend - for huge bonuses propogates this Dickensian aspect of life.

[TheAnimus]

That is the dumbest thing I have ever read. If 'willingness' was the only consideration why would there be more people queuing up to drive ambulances, undercutting each other and thus reducing their own pay, but remaining 'unwilling' to work in a bank for £millions? Do me a favour.

Try as you like - it is impossible to justify an organisation paying one individual a £50million bonus, while the same organisation does not pay the cleaners even a living wage.

This situation is not because the cleaners are lazy and stupid, they 'work harder' than the bankers FFS, it's because there are vast inequalities in education and opportunities. It's largely an accident of history whether a child grows up to be a trader or a cleaner. The recent trend - and it is a recent trend - for huge bonuses propogates this Dickensian aspect of life.

Its strange how you call my argument 'dumb' then go and say something so pointly stupid.

A head of private banking, they are very very important, and will probably get a £10m bonus if they've been doing rather well. However, most have 10 years experiance. 10 years of stress like no other. Also, they will most likely already have a personal worth of a few m. Now, how long do you think they will want to stay working 6-12? Their wife is pregnant, they want to move to the countryside etc.

The big bonus is often a way of perswading these types that one more year is worth sticking out.

An ambulance driver on the other hand has no real retirement after 10 years option.

And no, i don't work in private banking.

Rack, i'm not on a high horse, as i said, i'll be lucky to get a low thousands bonus. Even if i went as management i wouldn't get a bonus over £100k, not going too happen because i'm in technical role, as such have less responsibility (i only have to make numbers churn out correctly, well close enough). But guess what, there are fewer people who can do it, and i want to start my own software house, i dont want to be sat here only just getting back from work (12 hours, programming/debugging others code), in 10 years time.

Now, last night was our xmas party, in a hurry to get changed i set in motion a chain of events which resulted in a (bug?) sybase malfunction. This produced bad numbers. Now all of our team was of course at the party, we where all **** faced. The IT people couldn't figure out how to fix it, not that you'd expect them to be able too, its a very complex system and it did take me about 1.5 hours to find the root of the problem, and i wrote the software! (and am compitent). What I'm saying is, one lorry driver, might caus a small upset, but one glitch with our database and we get obviously wrong vols, spots, fwds. Hence why fewer people can do that support, which i for one hate, and as such expect to be compensated for been woken at 3am.

Now it might sound like the disgruntuled security guard who thinks he runs the place because he chooses who he lets in and out. But the point i'm trying to make is if anyones pissed off about massive bonuses it should really be me, because i get it rubbed in my face, the table at the party, everyone there got my yearly in a month. But, they work harder than me, and i don't know how they have the energy.

[TheAnimus]

Try as you like - it is impossible to justify an organisation paying one individual a £50million bonus, while the same organisation does not pay the cleaners even a living wage.

This situation is not because the cleaners are lazy and stupid, they 'work harder' than the bankers FFS, it's because there are vast inequalities in education and opportunities. It's largely an accident of history whether a child grows up to be a trader or a cleaner. The recent trend - and it is a recent trend - for huge bonuses propogates this Dickensian aspect of life.

No.

The cleaners get paid very amicably. They don't appear until 10am (most people have been working 3 hours already) and they are gone by 5pm. They might do some more physical activity, but they have no responsibility (oh dear, theres a stain on the loo still.... the P&L is going to suffer)

Also the non agency ones are invited to things like the xmas party, included in the pension scheme (which i'm not, 'graduate' workers are excluded now), and a host of other benefits. Its pretty obvious you've never worked for an investment bank, or been on a trading floor.

Have you actually ever been inside a company thats doing well? The **** hits the fan as soon as profits start too slide, but things like todays crude announcement just make it so very rewarding.

[Moby-Dick]

sybase malfunction.

there's ya problem....

[TheAnimus]

there's ya problem....

Germans....... Germans like sybase and ramenstine.

[JPreston]

...Its pretty obvious you've never worked for an investment bank, or been on a trading floor.

Have you actually ever been inside a company thats doing well? The **** hits the fan as soon as profits start too slide, but things like todays crude announcement just make it so very rewarding.

You know for a moment there, I thought I was being lectured on the world of work by the graduate trainee. When I was your age and had all of two months' experience under my belt, I thought I knew it all too. Well, not really. I'm just being amiable.

But you're probably right about everything though. Being a banker is open to everyone regardless of background, and is the most stressful most unpleasant and most difficult job in the world. Much better to be a paramedic, cleaner ( ), army private, hospital porter, policeman etc, even though it does mean a £50million pay cut. Anything would be better than working quite long hours and being under soooo much stress, somehow, even though you know you could jack it all in whenever you want and never have to work again.

[badass]

But you're probably right about everything though. Being a banker is open to everyone regardless of background

Close - for these large bonuses its open to everyone with a Phd
These bankers get more money because they have more responsibility and make more money than others.
An example of what can happen if they make mistakes is what happened to Barings - 650 million lost over a few days. However the people that get hundrds of thousands have make hundreds of millions in profit.
A person that drives an ambulance gets paid less because the job is easier to learn. more people are capable of doing it and more people want to do it.
These bankers getting huge bonuses are no different from a company owner making a fortune bacause they were lucky/did everything just right.
Mind you one of the main reasons I take issue with these papers bashing bankers bonuses is because they are supporting footballers on other pages of the same paper! How can bonuses from managing a find worth billions be obscene when some rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish with half a braincell can kick a bag of wind around for 5 plus million per year!

[Steve B]

How can bonuses from managing a find worth billions be obscene when some rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish with half a braincell can kick a bag of wind around for 5 plus million per year!

^ QFT ^

[JPreston]

Close - for these large bonuses its open to everyone with a Phd...

....These bankers getting huge bonuses are no different from a company owner making a fortune bacause they were lucky/did everything just right.
Mind you one of the main reasons I take issue with these papers bashing bankers bonuses is because they are supporting footballers on other pages of the same paper! How can bonuses from managing a find worth billions be obscene when some rubbishrubbishrubbishrubbish with half a braincell can kick a bag of wind around for 5 plus million per year!

They tend not to have Phd's though? That's another thing that grinds my gears, at university I had a couple of lecturers who were world-wide leaders in their respective fields, and now I earn double what they do even though I'm too dumb to even remember what their fields were (beyond 'maths' ).

I don't think anyone is complaining about bog standard city workers, but a £50million bonus? No way is that right, when the same company contracts 100's cleaners who are below the poverty line. Well, maybe they have a very cushy life and a Victorian townhouse in Teletubbyland, rent-free.

One thing we can all agree on though is professional footballers, WTF is that about?

[Butcher]

Isn't it true that 50% of the worlds wealth is owned by just 2% of it? That's (to my mind at least) completely ridiculous, yet huge bonuses like this just perpetuate it. It would be much better if massive surpluses like this were psread around a lot more. Knock 20% off everyone's bonus and pay the cleaners and such more. It'll improve their quality of life far more than it will the people actually getting the bonus.

[badass]

They tend not to have Phd's though? That's another thing that grinds my gears, at university I had a couple of lecturers who were world-wide leaders in their respective fields, and now I earn double what they do even though I'm too dumb to even remember what their fields were (beyond 'maths' ).

I was surprised to find out this myself, but yes they do have Phd's

I don't think anyone is complaining about bog standard city workers, but a £50million bonus? No way is that right, when the same company contracts 100's cleaners who are below the poverty line. Well, maybe they have a very cushy life and a Victorian townhouse in Teletubbyland, rent-free.

You cant say that when someone who works in the city has told you that is not the case without at least providing some evidence to support that.

One thing we can all agree on though is professional footballers, WTF is that about?

Because about 1/4 of this country is completely obsessed with football and spends far too much money either watching it on telly (Sky sports with 20 quadrizillion different football channels for only £stupid per month) and the rest they spend on season tickets to watch at every opportunity.
Fine. Footballers can get loads, but if I hear some idiot that pays money for entry to a football club and extra to watch football matches to further boost some brainless coke snorting halfwit's wages whilst moaning about "fatcats" then I will point out his hipocracy.

[badass]

Isn't it true that 50% of the worlds wealth is owned by just 2% of it? That's (to my mind at least) completely ridiculous, yet huge bonuses like this just perpetuate it.

Errr dont mean to burst your bubble, but you're probably in the top 1%
The vast majority of the people in this country are.
Would you happily give away 3/4 of your wages to redistribute the wealth fairly?