scan wont admit theres a problem with my q6600

[Hicks12]

i will make the technical department aware of this thread for Monday Saracen we do not guarantee any level of overclocking.

Im probably wrong but doesnt this imply you do gaurantee overclocking...

This Intel Core 2 Quad-Core Q6600 G0 SLACR CPU will run up to 3.30Ghz or higher (when overclocked) and used in conjunction with the correct Memory, Motherboard and updated Heat Sink Fan

To me this really does imply and say that it will overclock well over stock etc so when on stock its reaching in the 60's then how would having it up to 3.3ghz cope?

[polly69]

Shouldn't be any problems what exactly?

I stopped caring about this thread after this:

The reason that that was said is because it was said by a scan tech that maybe i didnt know how to put a HSF on so i should hope i do else the qualifications i hold mean jack im not a big head eveyone on this forum knows about pc's but if your know how was questioned would you not defend your actions.

I have done everything i can including sending detailed printouts of the pc and its working tempratures one showed 65c after 2 minutes but scan said they can send me 100s of printouts of it at 30c eventhough they had told me it was around 58c when they tested it with the northQ HSF i use to swear by scans customer service but i fired off a email to the techs and customer service on thursday and neither have had the decency to answer.

I had to shut it down last night after minutes because i knew that as soon as i tried encoding a film or somthing like that it would pass thermal specs and shutdown blowup who knows what i do know is that i dont want to risk damage to my other componants. Some of you seem to agree but other seem to think there is nothing wrong and im moaning for no reason i havent overclocked it nor any other thing that could cause these isues.

Some of you have emailed me weeks ago and tried to help when i first asked for help and its still like it the trouble has been there since day one and this is not the first time ive mentioned the thermal issues. Thanx to the ones who have had feed back no matter if its good or bad as said scan havent answered my mails maybe now they make take some notice.

[asmith]

to be hounest your best off waiting till Monday I am not sure what else they can do as a Retailer its down to Intel in the end as the CPU is running within the specifications defined by intel. If I was you in this situation I would go straight to Intel on this one. Just my 2 cent

[aidanjt]

it was 67c within minutes last night just loading up programs ive tried it in 3 boards and the temps are the same i have the asus P5K and there is no problem with the sensors as its reading the E4400 at 34c

The sensor is ON DIE, it is NOT read by the super i/o chip on your motherboard. As already mentioned multiple times, you probably have a dodgy sensor. If it's physically burning your skin to the touch, then it's too hot, if not, then it's fine.

[Saracen]

Its not like he is running the CPU at higher clocks and over volting it. He would only be running it in the manner any average customer would with the exception of testing it with a stress test(which is perfectly acceptable). I also specifically requested recorded monitoring for proof of the fact that the CPU was run under normal conditions if anything should happen to it so he shouldn't have any issues when sending it back given that he is a certified computer technician.

Polly69 has the proof for his findings and the qualifications to back it up so there shouldn't be any problems.

I suspect that retailers will draw their own conclusions about how a processor has been treated, and there's no feasible way to know whether it's been treated as an "average customer" would. The "evidence" is of nominal value if it isn't either independent, or verifiable by that retailer, because it's too easy to fake. I have no idea what procedures Scan have, but let me give you an example. You can record log files of test runs, but there's no way to be sure if, for instance, the CPU has been nobled by applying too much, or too little, TIM while the run was done. Or to know if case fans had been disabled or turned down. Or, for that matter, if a 3KW electric heater has been pointed at the side of an open chassis, raising ambient temperature. Yes, you could set up a test bed that would record ambient temps, but how can anyone be sure that some games like this haven't been played.

I am NOT suggesting that polly would do things like this. I certainly AM suggesting that retailers have to deal with a small percentage of customers that have neither the expertise nor honesty to be trustworthy.

And if the CPU has been fried, there's then no way for anyone, be it Intel or Scan or an independent lab, to verify anything. Far better is for polly to have a working processor that's performing out of spec, which can be tested, and have that out-of-spec performance confirmed, if indeed it is out-of-spec.

[Noxvayl]

Shouldn't be any problems what exactly?

I stopped caring about this thread after this:

I wonder if people bother actually reading posts any more because I find myself 80% of the time referring people to things I have either already said in a post or referring them to a quote to which my sentenced is aimed.

There shouldn't be any problems should the chip fail as Sarcen suggested would cause complications with an RMA.

[Noxvayl]

I suspect that retailers will draw their own conclusions about how a processor has been treated, and there's no feasible way to know whether it's been treated as an "average customer" would. The "evidence" is of nominal value if it isn't either independent, or verifiable by that retailer, because it's too easy to fake. I have no idea what procedures Scan have, but let me give you an example. You can record log files of test runs, but there's no way to be sure if, for instance, the CPU has been nobled by applying too much, or too little, TIM while the run was done. Or to know if case fans had been disabled or turned down. Or, for that matter, if a 3KW electric heater has been pointed at the side of an open chassis, raising ambient temperature. Yes, you could set up a test bed that would record ambient temps, but how can anyone be sure that some games like this haven't been played.

I am NOT suggesting that polly would do things like this. I certainly AM suggesting that retailers have to deal with a small percentage of customers that have neither the expertise nor honesty to be trustworthy.

And if the CPU has been fried, there's then no way for anyone, be it Intel or Scan or an independent lab, to verify anything. Far better is for polly to have a working processor that's performing out of spec, which can be tested, and have that out-of-spec performance confirmed, if indeed it is out-of-spec.

Point taken

It would seem that since this thread is active scan would have a look at it on Monday and hopefully take another look at it.

Other than that the only other option is going to Intel which might take a bit longer due to shear volume of RMA's on there side.

[Saracen]

.... Some of you seem to agree but other seem to think there is nothing wrong and im moaning for no reason i havent overclocked it nor any other thing that could cause these isues. ....

Just to be clear, I'm not saying you've overclocked it and I'm not saying I'd be happy if I was getting the results you're getting. I can't speak for other people, but I can't see anyone claiming you've overclocked it. I'm also NOT saying there's nothing wrong. What I'm saying is that the 71c that you and everyone else is using to determine max temp is a datapoint that Intel apply to assess max performance under very specific and controlled conditions. The tests you have described don't match Intel's requirements for doing that comparison, and there will be a margin of error.

I'm certainly not saying your moaning for no reason. Based on what you've said, it looks like you've got a particularly bad exanple. But if it's within spec, it isn't faulty and you've just been unlucky.

So what I'm saying is that the chip might be faulty, or might be (just) within spec which, while clearly a particularly bad example if it is, is still not "faulty".


Also, you've said (post #3)

The worst is this is all at 2.4 so any hopes of 3ghz or more are gone one of the main reasons for choosing this was its cool running and high overclock rates

and also

I dont know why everyone is talking about overclocking as im stock what im getting at that its stinking hot at 2.4ghz so what chance do you have at 3.3ghz which they are basically saying it will do with the right componants.

You asked a while ago why people keep referring to overclocking. It's because of comments like that, and repeated references to what other people and forums say you should get, and that you say Scan say you will get 3.3GHz. Scan don't say you "will" get 3.3GHz. They refer to the processor generally, and say you'll get "up to" 3.3Ghz. They don't guarantee any specific level of overclocking anywhere that I can find, and certainly not in the bit of their website that you quoted. What you buy is a chip quaranteed to perform stably at rated speed, if operated in accordance with their system design criteria. It might, and based on widespread evidence, generally will overclock very well .... but there's no guarantee it'll overclock at all. There is always a degree of manufacturing tolerances on things like this. Some examples are good. Some bad. Some are towards the upper end of acceptable tolerances and you might have been unlucky enough to get one like that.

That's why I said I thought the problem might be with your expectations. That's not that I think you're moaning about nothing, but I do think that you don't have the right to expect what you think you have. If I thought you were moaning without reason, I'd have ignored this thread. I've posted because I'm putting a different viewpoint.

If, repeat IF the chip is running within Intel spec, then it isn't faulty, regardless of whether it won't overclock at all, let alone by how much or at what temps. And, if it operates within their max temp when measured according to their metrology guidelines, at stock speed and settings, then it is within spec and therefore not faulty. We just don't know if it does operate within spec or not.

[Saracen]

Im probably wrong but doesnt this imply you do gaurantee overclocking...

I can't see how. Scan don't say it won't overclock, because generally speaking, these chips overclock well. What they don't do is guarantee it will do so, or if it does, by how much.

.... To me this really does imply and say that it will overclock well over stock etc so when on stock its reaching in the 60's then how would having it up to 3.3ghz cope?

Again, as a processor, the Q6600 is a good clocker. To get one that won't overclock at all is the exception, judging from the results almost everyone posts. And, of course, polly's may be faulty. But if it won't overclock at all, and is still within Intel spec, it isn't faulty.

All Scan do, and perhaps the wording could be a bit more guarded, is to point out that this processor model is a very good clocker. They don't guarantee that any particular unit will be.

That's how I read their claims, anyway.

[Chris P]

Our web site is clear and there is NO confusion.

At no point do we mention a guaranteed overclock to any speed, simply that the CPU will run up to 3.30Ghz. A CPU is NOT faulty because you cannot overclock it and we certainly would not replace a CPU because it cannot be overclocked.

If we stated in the description that " This CPU will run at 3.3GHz or higher" then I would understand if our customer's complained, however we do not state this.

Regards

[asmith]

I don't think thats his problem, what hes experiencing is abnormally high tempuature reading's for a processor running at stock speed under no stress.

The problem is, that because the processor operates within Intels guidelines, hes stuffed for replacement/ return.

Is what I gather anyway

My opinion: Bite the bullet bud I have done this before lost £170 (not scan was a headunit for my car)

[polly69]

i havent had it at 3 or 3.3 ghz what i did say was that if it throttling at 2.4 there is no way i would attempt anything higher as i said when i put it back in last night and went to the bios to change my ram divider so im within my 1000mhz ram i checked the temps and it was high 60c. what i meant about the moaning is it seemed like Blitzen was really pissed and it was my fault.

Most peolpe have had good things to say but he was saying there wasnt a problem yet sitting idle i have temps ranging from 50-60c and in his sig he states 29idle and 30 odd loaded at 3.3ghz so there is a difference of 100% between his and mine.

I know they are not all the same but it shouldnt be 67c loading up at startup bare in mind that was around 12am so it was cooler today has been very hot again so the 67c would have been at least 71c intels maximum and it has throttled back 3 times now scan said if that wasnt happening there wasnt a problem but it has done here with me. I have another board coming monday from scan so i will try it in that and try and post some printouts to allow you to make up your own mind.

I know everyones on about scans advert about overclocking but overclockers states this about the Q6600 and im using much better cooling at 1.2v.

OcUK is now guaranteeing that when you purchase one of these Q6600 processors it will run at 3.00GHz or faster prime stable. In order to achieve this you are required to enter your motherboards BIOS and make the following changes in the CPU section of the BIOS:-
1. CPU Setup - User Defined
2. Multiplier - Default
3. Front Side Bus (FSB) - 333MHz (1333MHz FSB)
4. CPU Core voltage - You might need to take this upto 1.45v maximum but generally 1.4v is fine dependent on the motherboard.
5. We advice you purchase an uprated CPU Cooler such as the Arctic Cooler Freezer 7 Pro to better cool the CPU.

If your struggle to get 3.00GHz stable from the CPU do make sure your memory is set to run at its rated speed and voltage. Secondly make sure you have fitted the heatsink correctly and removed any protective films from the heatsink base. OcUK always recommends the use of Arctic Silver for thermal conductivity from the CPU to the heatsink base for optimal heat transfer. With the stock Intel heatsink fitted correctly and using 1.45v or less your CPU load temps should not exceed 60c in a typical 25c ambient temperature room and in a well ventilated case. OcUK does strongly recommend the use of an uprated cooler such as Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro or Tuniq Tower 120. If you require a more in depth overclocking guide then look to purchase the OcUK overclocking guide from this website. Also feel free to call our technical line for any further assistance in achieving your overclock.

[Agent]

Using OcUK as the basis for technical information is like asking the government to keep our data safe.

The easiest way to test if it is actually running at that temp, is to see if it throttles when the temperature goes up. If you're hitting the throttle under normal operating conditions, you have a problem. If not, then you really have no case here.

As long as the chip operates fully, without issue, at stock speeds then I really can't see where this is going to go?

[Saracen]

Oh boy.

OcUK are free to guarantee what they wish. I assume they have their own commercial logic for whatever they do. But to expect Scan to honour guarantee criteria that OcUK offer is a bit like expecting Mercedes to honour BMW's warranty. Maybe OcUK are prepared to accept a number of warranty claims because they feel that that guarantee will bring in sufficient extra business to pay for it. Maybe they feel that the extra business is generates is sufficient to cover individual processor tests so they test all their CPUs before shipping. Maybe they're just taking a chance on a known good clocker, and will write off any losses on the odd one that doesn't meet that criteria. Who knows?

And Blitzen's point was that it doesn't matter what he gets. Or what I get, or what 100,000 other people get. If your chip is operating within Intel spec, it's not faulty. What matters is whether it operates in-spec or not.

Neither Intel not Scan guarantee ANY overclocking. If you buy one and it clocks, great, you got a bonus. But if it doesn't, you still got what you paid for if it's operating within spec (i.e. within temps at rated speed, etc), no matter how close to the spec limits it is, or the degree of variation between samples. So if his operates at 35c at 3.3GHz and yours operates at 65c or 70c at 2.4Ghz, then you STILL got what you paid for, if it's within Intel spec.

You may be unlucky in getting one that's uncharacteristically close to limits, but if it's in spec, it's not faulty no matter what the difference between yours and Blitzen's chips. Disappointing, yes. Verey unlucky, yes. But not faulty.

Whether it actually is in-spec or not, I don't know. Nor, I suspect, having read Intel's Thermal Design and Metrology guide, does anyone else on here.

[Saracen]

.....

I know everyones on about scans advert about overclocking but overclockers states this about the Q6600 and im using much better cooling at 1.2v.

OcUK is now guaranteeing that when you purchase one of these Q6600 processors it will run at 3.00GHz or faster prime stable. In order to achieve this you are required to enter your motherboards BIOS and make the following changes in the CPU section of the BIOS:-
1. CPU Setup - User Defined
2. Multiplier - Default
3. Front Side Bus (FSB) - 333MHz (1333MHz FSB)
4. CPU Core voltage - You might need to take this upto 1.45v maximum but generally 1.4v is fine dependent on the motherboard.
5. We advice you purchase an uprated CPU Cooler such as the Arctic Cooler Freezer 7 Pro to better cool the CPU.

If your struggle to get 3.00GHz stable from the CPU do make sure your memory is set to run at its rated speed and voltage. Secondly make sure you have fitted the heatsink correctly and removed any protective films from the heatsink base. OcUK always recommends the use of Arctic Silver for thermal conductivity from the CPU to the heatsink base for optimal heat transfer. With the stock Intel heatsink fitted correctly and using 1.45v or less your CPU load temps should not exceed 60c in a typical 25c ambient temperature room and in a well ventilated case. OcUK does strongly recommend the use of an uprated cooler such as Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro or Tuniq Tower 120. If you require a more in depth overclocking guide then look to purchase the OcUK overclocking guide from this website. Also feel free to call our technical line for any further assistance in achieving your overclock.

OcUK supply Q6600 processors under two stock codes. The description you quoted comes from the guaranteed overclocking one, not the standard one, and they charge £20 more for the guaranteed overclocking one (though both are on a discount this weekend).

This merely reinforces what I said in the last post - they have a commercial logic for offering this .... at extra cost. Either that cost justifies the time spent in cherry-picking the good-'uns, or it pays for the losses on the occasions they have to honour that warranty. Or whatever. Either way, OcUK guarantee extra, but charge extra for it.

It makes me wonder, though. If they're testing and cherry-picking (and I have no idea if they are), doesn't that imply that if you want a good clocker you'd better go for the more expensive one, because if they've tested and cherry-picked, it implies that what's left at standard price may well be those that won't clock as high? That might suit someone that isn't bothered about clocking it, but anyone else??

[Grey M@a]

Must admit these q6600's do run a tad hot but then again I have mine crunching folding@home in a shuttle sx38p2 pro with a full length dual slot 8800gts 512 card and I am running at 48, 50, 54, 46.

To answer the within limits question I am sure Intel state 80c for their chips, could even be 90c not a real problem if you hit the limit as the chip will throttle to cool down.

As for OcUK testing the chips I don't think they are as I got mine from there with the weekly deal and I got the one to clock to 3ghz but the cpu boxes come untouched and no seals broken so I guess they are going for certain stepping models.