New ATI Tuner Card.

[satnav4]

satnav4 you forgot one and dosen't HOT

True. Perhaps a heatsink would make sense as well.

[hrlslcbr]

True. Perhaps a heatsink would make sense as well.

Yeah, the cards get pretty hot...
Anyway, I'm sure I won't be part of ATI's beta testing programme again with yet another chip...
Actually, I really doubt I'll buy the T 650...

[Multimedia Mike]

1) Provide fine bitrate control;
2) Permit volume adjustment;
3) Permit sharpness adjustment;
4) Enable DD support.

Hello everyone,
Let me address these issues one at a time:
1) I have asked you guys to let me know what exactly is it that's not working about bitrate control. Can someone pelase let me know what app they're using and what they set and what they're getting (presumably different from what they set). I'd like to remind people that if you set a bitrate in something like GraphEdit and then use some application to record, that app's settings will overwrite the settings you did in GraphEdit.
2) I've already discussed this issue and have closed it until further notice, please read previous posts on this thread for the status.
3) Theater 550 does not provide sharpness adjustment. I'm not sure, but is this written on any product descriptions? If so can you point them to me, thanks.
4) I'm not sure what you mean by DD, but if you mean Dolby Digital, then here is the status on that. Theater 550 doesn't support Dolby Digital and we never said or written anywhere that it does. If you check the Theater 550 section or the TV Wonder Elite section on www.ati.com or on the box of it if you own one, it doesn't say anywhere that we do Dolby Digital encoding. I realize some partner products say this (like VisionTek) and I will be getting in touch with them to clarify the issue. You have to understand that these companies are separate from ATI and just buy the chip from us and make/sell the boards themselves. The information we send them about the chip is accurate, but it seems sometimes they either don't understand or misinterpret something. I'll look into trying to get them to stop posting inaccurate information about our chip. Keep those issues coming and we'll try to take em down one at a time. Remember I'm here to help you guys

[thethinman]

Hello everyone,
Let me address these issues one at a time:
1) I have asked you guys to let me know what exactly is it that's not working about bitrate control. Can someone pelase let me know what app they're using and what they set and what they're getting (presumably different from what they set).

Hi Mike. This is what I mean about the bitrate control:

I find that if the video bitrate control is set at a variable rate from 5.0Mbps to 9.0Mbps in any of the following programs (BTV, GBPVR, SAGE TV) a recording made and then opened using a program such as PowerDVD with the "Video Information" displayed on the screen as the file plays.

Using the 5.0Mbps to 9.0Mbps variable bitrate on the Theater 550 Pro shows a variance of bitrate from only 4.92Mbps to a high of 5.74Mbps. Using the exact same setting with my ATI E-Home Wonder I see the bitrate dip all the way to 1.54Mbps for a brief second in a scene with hardly any movement on the screen to a burst of 9.08Mbps in a scene with lots of movement on the screen. I don't know if it is the actual hardware mpg encoder on the Theater 550 Pro or a limitation of the drivers, but the 550 PRO is not showing the same range of bitrate that the older E-Home wonder does. I hope this can be fixed with newer drivers, as I am very happy with the Theater 550 Pro otherwise. I like that it always keeps the video and audio in synch as the same can not always be said about the E-Home Wonder. I use DVD Workshop to author my Theater 550 files and the resulting DVD's always burn well and in perfect synch.

[hrlslcbr]

3) Theater 550 does not provide sharpness adjustment. I'm not sure, but is this written on any product descriptions? If so can you point them to me, thanks.

Don't make me laugh...
Does ATI need to specify EVERY single thing the card supports???
Sharpness adjustments are provided with ANY capture card; it's a BASIC adjustment option, and there's even a slider to 'adjust it' but the problem is that it doesn't do anything to the captured video.
Is that enough proof that the card was supposed to have sharpness control?

4) I'm not sure what you mean by DD, but if you mean Dolby Digital, then here is the status on that. Theater 550 doesn't support Dolby Digital and we never said or written anywhere that it does. If you check the Theater 550 section or the TV Wonder Elite section on www.ati.com or on the box of it if you own one, it doesn't say anywhere that we do Dolby Digital encoding. I realize some partner products say this (like VisionTek) and I will be getting in touch with them to clarify the issue. You have to understand that these companies are separate from ATI and just buy the chip from us and make/sell the boards themselves. The information we send them about the chip is accurate, but it seems sometimes they either don't understand or misinterpret something. I'll look into trying to get them to stop posting inaccurate information about our chip. Keep those issues coming and we'll try to take em down one at a time. Remember I'm here to help you guys

Well, actually you've got a lot of people to contact. ALL partners (that I know of) put Dolby Digital on their specs.

[jonaslasky]

Don't make me laugh...
Does ATI need to specify EVERY single thing the card supports???
Sharpness adjustments are provided with ANY capture card; it's a BASIC adjustment option, and there's even a slider to 'adjust it' but the problem is that it doesn't do anything to the captured video.
Is that enough proof that the card was supposed to have sharpness control?

Well, actually you've got a lot of people to contact. ALL partners (that I know of) put Dolby Digital on their specs.

Mikey has certainly proven himself to be a corporate obfuscator extraordinaire LOL! My sub-$20 webcam has a sharpness adjustment.... and i would bet everybody else's does too. Very funny Mike. If I didn't know any better I would think ATI hired you for your ineptitude. That would be a perfect strategy too. Just send somebody to this forum and let him bungle his way through till everybody's totally confused.

If I recall correctly even ATI posted incorrect information at their web site until somebody mentioned it and they took it down. I can't recall exactly what it was though. It was quite some time ago. In any case the excuse that ATI can't control what their partners publish about their products is lame at best. In many instances, manufacturers who incorporate chips into their products simply copy the feature set list from the chip manufacturer's promotional literature unchanged. Just like the way computer manufacturers take intel's specs and feature lists and publish them unchanged. It's absurd to say that manufacturers are free to make things up about ATI's products.


Jonas

[SHSPVR]

thethinman that the way VBR mode work just used tools like Bitrate Viewer.
Mike In ref to Provide fine bitrate control we can't use ture VBR mode it fix number like 6.0MBit/sec, 7, 8 etc but say we want 5.5MBit/sec which the ATI 550 can't be adjustment to that fine bitrate control.

[satnav4]

If I recall correctly even ATI posted incorrect information at their web site until somebody mentioned it and they took it down. I can't recall exactly what it was though. It was quite some time ago. In any case the excuse that ATI can't control what their partners publish about their products is lame at best. In many instances, manufacturers who incorporate chips into their products simply copy the feature set list from the chip manufacturer's promotional literature unchanged. Just like the way computer manufacturers take intel's specs and feature lists and publish them unchanged. It's absurd to say that manufacturers are free to make things up about ATI's products.
Jonas

Jonas

I believe that was me, and the issue was MMC support. ATI claimed that the card was supported by MMC, when that was not true. They gave us Power Enima instead. Regardless, they had screen shots of the program in action, and literature claimed support by the famed--but never released--9.04.

MM

I tried to do a simple list to make your response simple. Instead, you state in response that you answered item 2 re volume, have closed the issue, and have directed us to read above. Save me some time, and tell me the answer. I don't recall seeing a definitive solution. I still use my Hauppauge card to record items I will watch on airplanes to get enough volume.

Thanks

S.

[thethinman]

thethinman that the way VBR mode work just used tools like Bitrate Viewer.

SHSPVR I understand exactly how VBR works, and it does not work properly on the Theater 550 PRO. If you set the bitrate to Variable Bit Rate with a Base Rate of 5.0Mbps and a Bit Rate Peak of 9.0Mbps, the rate should fluctuate from 5.0Mbps to 9.0Mbps according to the complexity of the video information encoded. It never makes it over 6.0Mbps and just barley dips below 5.0Mbps no matter how simplex the video image is.

My ATI E-Home Wonder and my Hauppauge PVR 250 have no problem what so ever encoding at the full range of the VBR 5.0Mbps to 9.0Mbps Rates.

[Octavean]

If I recall correctly even ATI posted incorrect information at their web site until somebody mentioned it and they took it down. I can't recall exactly what it was though. It was quite some time ago. In any case the excuse that ATI can't control what their partners publish about their products is lame at best. In many instances, manufacturers who incorporate chips into their products simply copy the feature set list from the chip manufacturer's promotional literature unchanged. Just like the way computer manufacturers take intel's specs and feature lists and publish them unchanged. It's absurd to say that manufacturers are free to make things up about ATI's products.


Jonas

I have heard that there is now a class action lawsuit against ATI for promoting many video cards as being HDCP compliant when in fact they have no cards at all that support HDCP in the open market. It is alleged that ATI changed the information on their web pages after the lawsuit was levied against them recently:

http://theinquirer.net/?article=31533

And of course we all know about the T550P promotional slide show depicting pictures of MMC (pre T550P launch) even though MMC didn’t support the T550P. I don’t recall if they bothered to remove those pictures but at the very least a disclaimer stating something to the effect that the T550P didn’t work with MMC should have undoubtedly accompanied those pictures and of course this wasn’t the case. Perhaps MMC support for the T550P was eventually provided (grudgingly) in order to prevent legal entanglement rather then some sense of reason, duty or common sense.

Although I don’t believe it, I have heard that ATI has sold the HDTV Wonder in Canada officially and then stopped selling it in Canada and put up a disclaimer stating that the HDTV Wonder was not for sale in Canada or supported in Canada. In effect, changing their web page to suit the new policy and refusing to give support to Canadian customers (after selling to them either directly or through official ATI resellers). I actually believe that this was a rumor started by disgruntled would be Canadian customers who either wanted HDTV Wonder cards but couldn’t buy them (not sold in Canada) or disgruntled Canadian customers who managed to buy them but couldn’t get support for them from ATI since they shouldn’t have had the part in that market.

2) I've already discussed this issue and have closed it until further notice, please read previous posts on this thread for the status.

This is a classic ATI response though,…..just classic.

Respectfully, I’m sure Multimedia Mike doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t discuss this amongst ourselves since one of use may even come up with a solution or at least an explanation as to why the volume issue even exists:

And why,….
[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Cl ass\{4D36E96C-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0028\BoardSetting] "Volume"=dword:000000ff

isn’t a great improvement over the default

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Cl ass\{4D36E96C-E325-11CE-BFC1-08002BE10318}\0028\BoardSetting] "Volume"=dword:00000080

or no effect,…

Even though there's a separate forum section for Remote Wonders, I'll deal with the question here. I just tried out using Remote Wonder Plus with MCE and it works fine. What issues are people having?

Sure, the Remote Wonder 3.03 Driver “ATIRW.exe” crash issue is really quite common and well known. So common that even a reviewer made note of it in a AIW X1900 review. This actually can effect the Remote Wonder line in its entirety not just the Remote Wonder Plus.

http://forums.hexus.net/showpost.php...postcount=2122

Respectfully, you haven’t addressed the above.

One reason I see this as a legitimate issue is because the ATI TV Wonder Elite is sold with the Remote Wonder Plus and if a review came across the “Remote Wonder 3.03 Driver ATIRW.exe” crash issue as well as many users you can be sure its not an isolated issue.

[Multimedia Mike]

MM
Save me some time, and tell me the answer. I don't recall seeing a definitive solution.

Thanks

S.

Hi satnav4,
I didn't provide a difinitive solution, but I've identified the issue. Check out my response:
http://forums.hexus.net/showpost.php...postcount=2088

Unfortunately, I'm not sure when, if at all possible, we would be able to fix it. I'll be sure to post any updates I get about this issue.

[jonaslasky]

I have heard that there is now a class action lawsuit against ATI for promoting many video cards as being HDCP compliant when in fact they have no cards at all that support HDCP in the open market. It is alleged that ATI changed the information on their web pages after the lawsuit was levied against them recently:

http://theinquirer.net/?article=31533


This is a classic ATI response though,…..just classic.

Respectfully, I’m sure Multimedia Mike doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t discuss this amongst ourselves since one of use may even come up with a solution or at least an explanation as to why the volume issue even exists:

I think the Inquirer article is true. I recall ATI stating that the HDTV Wonder was only available to US and Canadian customers in the very early days of its release. Of course it soon became clear that ATSC broadcasts weren't that widespread in Canada so in some regions an HDTV tuner was useless.

I appreciate Mike's latest post admitting that PERHAPS nothing can be done about the volume. I remember exactly what he said in his original post regarding that. What I didn't like was that he seemed to just close that door even though it was far from resolved.

Anyway, it is refreshing that he actually admits that perhaps nothing can be done for that. I like that. Now we don't have to waste our time thinking about that. Really that's all I'm looking for from ATI. It's already clear to me that they messed up BIG TIME with the T 550. To string us along with lies and mis-directions is the worst of it.

Jonas

[satnav4]

Hi satnav4,
I didn't provide a difinitive solution, but I've identified the issue. Check out my response:
http://forums.hexus.net/showpost.php...postcount=2088

Unfortunately, I'm not sure when, if at all possible, we would be able to fix it. I'll be sure to post any updates I get about this issue.

Thanks. Hopefully a fix will be forthcoming.

S.

[Multimedia Mike]

Sure, the Remote Wonder 3.03 Driver “ATIRW.exe” crash issue is really quite common and well known. So common that even a reviewer made note of it in a AIW X1900 review. This actually can effect the Remote Wonder line in its entirety not just the Remote Wonder Plus.

Hi everyone,
I've looked into this issue and I myself haven't been able to see the crash. However, I've discussed it with our QA and engineers and they say that it has been brought to their attention before, but it was a rare occurance and there was no clear, identifiable cause. I spoke to the driver person and he said that they put in some potential fixes, which will be in the next release 3.04 drivers, which will be coming out soon. So lets wait for that and if you guys are still seeing crashes, we'll talk about it then. In the meantime, if someone has a way they can replicate this crash by following certain steps (i.e. some window or app or something), then please post what you're doing, that would help get it fixed, but like I said, hopefully it will be resolved.

[satnav4]

Has anyone run into copy protection from digital sources preventing the ability to record? I tried to record a program off of HBO with my X800 AIW using MMC, but part way through it stopped and mentioned it could not be copied. Another time it copied, but it was very choppy. More recently, I tried to record from "in demand" a show in the morning to watch at night using the 550 and BTV. I can see the "in demand" data on the TV set through the cable box component feed, but it does not appear on the 550 through s-video which is fed by the cable box as well. Other channels do appear, but not the higher pay channels. What gives? Does anyone have an explanation or fix? I am not a pirate, and do not keep the recordings after viewing. They are deleted like so many other CSI, Law and Order, etc. shows.

Thanks for the hopeful help.

S.

[jonaslasky]

Has anyone run into copy protection from digital sources preventing the ability to record? I tried to record a program off of HBO with my X800 AIW using MMC, but part way through it stopped and mentioned it could not be copied. Another time it copied, but it was very choppy. More recently, I tried to record from "in demand" a show in the morning to watch at night using the 550 and BTV. I can see the "in demand" data on the TV set through the cable box component feed, but it does not appear on the 550 through s-video which is fed by the cable box as well. Other channels do appear, but not the higher pay channels. What gives? Does anyone have an explanation or fix? I am not a pirate, and do not keep the recordings after viewing. They are deleted like so many other CSI, Law and Order, etc. shows.

Thanks for the hopeful help.

S.

This is weird. By the time it gets to your ANALOG capture card, there'd be no way they would know that you are copying it. As far as the S-Video output is concerned it could be a TV set, not a capture device. Are you sure it has anything to do with copy protection. A picture that would show up on a TV set should also be recordable.

It could be copy protection, but these days everyone wants to make their video available for later viewing anyway. Look at what Disney has done. They're making all their programming available for free (online) after their first showing. AOL is also going into video in a big way... yahoo with their new DVR application, and so will everyone else shortly.

Jonas