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Thread: AMD - Zen chitchat

  1. #1777
    Moosekateer CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by Helios451 View Post
    That's a nice video about RAM usage, as well!
    There is more testing from that channel:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6RSEU1d-g8



    So the problem is not only the latency in Zen2 but the IF bandwidth. Even overclocking a Ryzen 7 3800X to 5GHZ won't help that much!


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  2. Received thanks from:

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  3. #1778
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Some more leaks about the desktop Ryzen 4000 APUs:
    https://adoredtv.com/biostar-outs-47...us-e-variants/

    So the Ryzen 3 4200G will have 4 cores and the Ryzen 5 4400G will have 6 cores.

    AMD will be adding an XT moniker to the new Zen2 refresh CPUs:
    https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-to-a...t-on-june-16th

    It also looks like,mainstream will be stuck with RDNA1,as RDNA2 will be segmented to higher end models:

    https://hardwareleaks.com/2020/05/23...avi10-refresh/

    So looks like if you are a mainstream buyer of graphics cards,its going to be a longer wait if you want RT. Makes me wonder whether consoles will look a better alternative!


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  4. #1779
    Senior Member Xlucine's Avatar
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Some more leaks about the desktop Ryzen 4000 APUs:
    https://adoredtv.com/biostar-outs-47...us-e-variants/

    So the Ryzen 3 4200G will have 4 cores and the Ryzen 5 4400G will have 6 cores.

    AMD will be adding an XT moniker to the new Zen2 refresh CPUs:
    https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-to-a...t-on-june-16th

    It also looks like,mainstream will be stuck with RDNA1,as RDNA2 will be segmented to higher end models:

    https://hardwareleaks.com/2020/05/23...avi10-refresh/

    So looks like if you are a mainstream buyer of graphics cards,its going to be a longer wait if you want RT. Makes me wonder whether consoles will look a better alternative!
    A 5600XT replacement with RT isn't too bad, sounds like the cheap 2060s but better

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by Xlucine View Post
    A 5600XT replacement with RT isn't too bad, sounds like the cheap 2060s but better
    I am worried,more that they will keep the rebadged Navi 10 at under £300,and then bump the range upwards. You can already get the 5600XT and 5700 for under £300.


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    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I am worried,more that they will keep the rebadged Navi 10 at under £300,and then bump the range upwards. You can already get the 5600XT and 5700 for under £300.
    If their new top of the range is indeed over double the die size of a 5700XT, then you can expect that to cost rather more than double the cost of a 5700XT given how fewer of them you can cut out of a circular wafer.

    That's instantly not a product for me, but I wish them luck.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    If their new top of the range is indeed over double the die size of a 5700XT, then you can expect that to cost rather more than double the cost of a 5700XT given how fewer of them you can cut out of a circular wafer.

    That's instantly not a product for me, but I wish them luck.
    There is another Navi 23 which is apparently around the same size of Navi 10 or a bit larger. Think of an RDNA2 version of Navi10 and apparently the stuff which is responsible for the RT capability does not add massive die area either. I suspect it probably is the same GPU configuration from the PS5.After all the console SOCs,are hardly massive,once you consider the area for CPU dies,etc.

    So the problem is if Navi 10 is kept at the existing price,ie, around 5600XT/5700/5700XT performance for £250~£350,and the true 5600XT/5700/5700XT successor,is then priced above £350. Remember,the original leak was the RX680 being rebadged as a 5700XT,with a price bump,since the RTX2070 was a bit underwhelming. This is the same stunt Nvidia pulled with Turing.

    If the Navi 23 cards replace the 5600XT/5700/5700XT at current pricing with better overall performance,RT,etc it's fine,and the Navi 10 cards dip into the market under £250,ie,where the GTX1660 Super and RX5500XT is,it would be OK.

    But the problem,is both companies want to push the mainstream pricing upwards and upwards,way past any real inflation and with Nvidia now making 65% margins,with 2/3 of their revenue from gaming. The irony is we need Nvidia to be aggressive on pricing with Ampere,because if they are not,I am uncertain AMD will be. I would love to be proved wrong,but we will see!

    So for me if they want to charge £350+ for a 5700XT with a bit better performance and some RT capability,they can keep it then. If this happens,I will need to question whether a console next year would do me for the immediate future. The PC will do for all the older games I play.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 23-05-2020 at 03:58 PM.


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  8. #1783
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Presumably all the small/lower margin RDNA2 parts are going to console, so they can only really sell high margin binned large die parts to PC, alongside old process refresh chips (assuming the RDNA1 refresh will be using the same process as RDNA1). Once new process production/yields ramp up they'll be able to offer the smaller RDNA2 parts to PC as well.

    I don't like it (gives nVidia scope to increase price of mid range parts) but I can understand it from a making best use of your raw materials point of view.

    It will be interesting to see how spaced out the product stack from nVidia comes as a result of this - there could be some competition in the high-end space so we might get a number of cards within a small price range of each other.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    They are all 7NM AFAIK,which should be quite mature by now,and GDDR6 should be cheaper now than it was in 2018/2019. This is why Nvidia made some new mainstream parts with GDDR6,as GDDR5 became more expensive!


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    Senior Member watercooled's Avatar
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Presumably all the small/lower margin RDNA2 parts are going to console, so they can only really sell high margin binned large die parts to PC, alongside old process refresh chips (assuming the RDNA1 refresh will be using the same process as RDNA1). Once new process production/yields ramp up they'll be able to offer the smaller RDNA2 parts to PC as well.

    I don't like it (gives nVidia scope to increase price of mid range parts) but I can understand it from a making best use of your raw materials point of view.

    It will be interesting to see how spaced out the product stack from nVidia comes as a result of this - there could be some competition in the high-end space so we might get a number of cards within a small price range of each other.
    The parts going to consoles are custom parts with CPU and other bits on board, not what would be sold as a desktop GPU regardless.

  11. #1786
    Banhammer in peace PeterB kalniel's Avatar
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    They are all 7NM AFAIK,which should be quite mature by now,and GDDR6 should be cheaper now than it was in 2018/2019. This is why Nvidia made some new mainstream parts with GDDR6,as GDDR5 became more expensive!
    Is it not a new 7nm process?

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    The parts going to consoles are custom parts with CPU and other bits on board, not what would be sold as a desktop GPU regardless.
    Fair point, I'd forgotten they were monolithic. I expected them to go down the chiplet route.

  12. #1787
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
    Is it not a new 7nm process?
    AFAIK,people were thinking about 7NM EUV,but it apparently seems to be more a slight improvement to the current 7NM. However,the current 7NM is a few years old now,so it probably is what TSMC will be transitioning over to anyway. A bit like Intel fiddling with 14NM. I would love AMD to do what they did with the HD4870 and HD5870,but I have a feeling it's going to be very dependent on how aggressive Nvidia is.


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  13. #1788
    Moosekateer CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    The Asus B550I Strix is $229:
    https://smallformfactor.net/forum/th...i-strix.13522/

    So with VAT you can get the X570I mini-ITX motherboard for the same price. It also uses an active cooling fan. So are the A520 mini-ITX m,otherboards going to cost the same as B450 mini-ITX motherboards??

    Edit!!

    The B550 pricing is very high:

    https://www.anandtech.com/show/15810...pearing-online

    $134 for the ASUS Prime B550M-A,which is a basic motherboard,ie,around £130 with VAT.

    So below that have rubbish A520 motherboards with no overclocking.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 25-05-2020 at 03:14 AM.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    https://www.chiphell.com/forum.php?m...e%3D1&mobile=2

    RYZEN 9 3900XT - 4.1GHz base, 4.8GHz boost.
    RYZEN 7 3800XT - 4.2GHz base, 4.7GHz boost.
    RYZEN 5 3600XT - 4.0GHz base, 4.7GHz boost.


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  15. #1790
    root Member DanceswithUnix's Avatar
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    An extra 200MHz boost? Nice. I find my base clocks are nonsense, but the numbers going up 300MHz hopefully means it does actually clock higher.

    That ties in with the Linus Tech Tips I was watching earlier saying AMD dropped the price of the 3900X by $100 which they said would have rather changed the conclusion of their 10900K review.

  16. #1791
    Moosekateer CAT-THE-FIFTH's Avatar
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Zen2 refresh clockspeeds have been leaked:
    https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryze...-up-to-4-8-ghz

    Upto 4.8GHZ boost clockspeeds.


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  17. #1792
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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    My mates has got about £350 for a new build, what is the best combo he can get on AMD?

    Any chance he could get something that's going to support Zen 3 too?

    I've earmarked the 3600 and 16GB of 3200MHz RAM on Scan, that comes to £254.
    Kalniel: "Nice review Tarinder - would it be possible to get a picture of the case when the components are installed (with the side off obviously)?"
    CAT-THE-FIFTH: "The Antec 300 is a case which has an understated and clean appearance which many people like. Not everyone is into e-peen looking computers which look like a cross between the imagination of a hyperactive 10 year old and a Frog."
    TKPeters: "Off to AVForum better Deal - £20+Vat for Free Shipping @ Scan"
    for all intents it seems to be the same card minus some gays name on it and a shielded cover ? with OEM added to it - GoNz0.

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