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Thread: AMD - Zen chitchat

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    And the 10100F is now out of stock everywhere....

    I've got 4 weeks until I have to buy something, I'll wait it out, not sure when Scan are going to get any more in stock as it says they were expected on the 26th:/

    Thanks Obama..I mean AMD

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Oh another thing - there are reports AMD is now massively prioritising consoles and APUs over desktop CPUs and GPUs:
    https://twitter.com/nerdtechgasm/sta...15920144146432
    Wonder how accurate that Tweet is?
    Obviously, during the ramp-up both Sony and MS must have negotiated their terms in such a way that their allocation will take priority, but for the terms to be that if half-way through the ramp-up one or both decided they need 30% or 50% more wafers AMD had to allocate them ahead of anything else!?
    Those would be very good terms for the console players, but far less so for AMD no matter how much R&D funding AMD received for RDNA2 from them. Never mind big 500mm² GPUs, the consoles must have by far the lowest margins. Plus in terms of mindshare and marketshare (yes still important despite the short-term Wall Street obsession with margins), having AMD branded stock (consoles never did much for AMD's mindshare the last time, so no reason to believe things are different this time) which people want to buy and can't is a total disaster.
    Even a mythical Zen2/Zen3 6/8 core budget CPUs (under £150 / under £200) would have higher margins than console plus they'd capture mindshare and marketshare.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    @CAT
    I think you jinxed it!
    Since you mentioned CEX I had a look and while the last time I looked there was plenty of AM4 stuff, now in-stock online there are only 3 CPUs and they price has definitely gone up!
    I better hope my old Z77 mobo doesn't blow, or I too will be forced to upgrade at a bad time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelly. View Post
    3500x all now sold out at scan too lol.
    Its utter madness - its almost like because people can't get Zen3,they must buy any Zen or Zen2 based CPU.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_B View Post
    And the 10100F is now out of stock everywhere....

    I've got 4 weeks until I have to buy something, I'll wait it out, not sure when Scan are going to get any more in stock as it says they were expected on the 26th:/

    Thanks Obama..I mean AMD
    Novatech have it in stock:
    https://www.novatech.co.uk/products/...70110100f.html

    See if Monday throws up any deals,and then move from there??

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Wonder how accurate that Tweet is?
    Obviously, during the ramp-up both Sony and MS must have negotiated their terms in such a way that their allocation will take priority, but for the terms to be that if half-way through the ramp-up one or both decided they need 30% or 50% more wafers AMD had to allocate them ahead of anything else!?
    Those would be very good terms for the console players, but far less so for AMD no matter how much R&D funding AMD received for RDNA2 from them. Never mind big 500mm² GPUs, the consoles must have by far the lowest margins. Plus in terms of mindshare and marketshare (yes still important despite the short-term Wall Street obsession with margins), having AMD branded stock (consoles never did much for AMD's mindshare the last time, so no reason to believe things are different this time) which people want to buy and can't is a total disaster.
    Even a mythical Zen2/Zen3 6/8 core budget CPUs (under £150 / under £200) would have higher margins than console plus they'd capture mindshare and marketshare.
    You would think that! Either way,its a lose-lose scenario for us PC folk!!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 28-11-2020 at 08:06 PM.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Its utter madness - its almost like because people can't get Zen3,they must buy any Zen or Zen2 based CPU.
    I went to buy a 3500x earlier until I get my hands on a 5600x/5800x, I wasn't expecting it to be sold out so quick.

    I'm still plodding along with my 2500K, but without a GPU installed over the last 18-months, as I'm playing RAID: Shadow Legends mobile game on PC, amazing graphics and plays very well on onboard graphics.

    I bought some Crucial Ballistix Sport LT BLS2K16G4D32AESB (2x16gb) 32GB 3600C16 for £99.50 off Amazon back in February when Crucial were selling off old stock cheap for the newer heatspreader versions, still gathering dust....

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelly. View Post
    I went to buy a 3500x earlier until I get my hands on a 5600x/5800x, I wasn't expecting it to be sold out so quick.

    I'm still plodding along with my 2500K, but without a GPU installed over the last 18-months, as I'm playing RAID: Shadow Legends mobile game on PC, amazing graphics and plays very well on onboard graphics.

    I bought some Crucial Ballistix Sport LT BLS2K16G4D32AESB (2x16gb) 32GB 3600C16 for £99.50 off Amazon back in February when Crucial were selling off old stock cheap for the newer heatspreader versions, still gathering dust....
    Well my Ryzen 5 2600 is OK,but was meant to be a stop-gap,and at this rate will be the only CPU in this motherboard!

    However,most of the games I actually play are massively CPU limited at qHD with my GPU,so even before I can think of a GPU in the next two years,I would need a new CPU. When I say CPU limited,minimums in the 30~40FPS range.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Unlike the ASrock DeskMini A300 / X300 the fan isn't user selectable. The DeskMini can squeeze in the Noctua top-blower is something like 24dB(A) at load but also bumps up the price by around £50 or so. Then again while small it is nearly 2 litres vs 620ml of the Asus
    Most office tasks won't max out the CPU though, beyond a few seconds of web rendering or spreadsheet recalculation that can probably be soaked up by the heatsink.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Its utter madness - its almost like because people can't get Zen3,they must buy any Zen or Zen2 based CPU.
    There is this hard deadline called Christmas coming up, and all sorts of stuff is selling out. Now if we could get Boris to delay Christmas like he's getting everything else delayed...

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    There is this hard deadline called Christmas coming up, and all sorts of stuff is selling out. Now if we could get Boris to delay Christmas like he's getting everything else delayed...
    It's never been this bad in the last few years,and I had no problems finding lots of deals for other in-demand electronics for mates. I also just got an SF600 Platinum for a silly price,and those were like gold dust during the lockdown.

    Also for the most part I can still find a lot of Intel parts at reasonable prices and with actual stock. Its just people have gone mad - they can't get a Zen3 part so must buy an AMD part of any kind. Even the 12NM APUs are overpriced now. A Ryzen 3 3200G is not worth £110. The 12NM CPUs are also selling out too.

    Secondhand prices are also nonsensical. My Ryzen 5 2600 goes for between £100~£120 on Ebay now,and CEX sells it for £120. A Core i5 8400 is £85 on CEX and is generally quicker in gaming. I paid £137 for my Ryzen 5 2600 in 2018 from Amazon.

    Why would anyone get a Ryzen 5 3600 at £200,when for £20 more a Core i5 10600KF will blow it out of the water in gaming,and can be overclocked close to 5GHZ?? In gaming the Core i5 10600KF beats a Ryzen 7 3700X too.

    If this goes into next year and there are even worse CPU shortages,and AMD CPU street prices stay so high,for a gaming rig on a budget,Intel will be the better choice. People can go on about an upgrade path but core for core Intel CFL is faster than Zen2.Zen3 is faster but priced higher but is more likely to be pushed up in price too.

    It looks like it will take upto 2 months for the RX6000 to be available at MSRP:
    https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-expe...n-4-to-8-weeks

    Now add our local problems to the mix,it will be at least February at the very least if we might see a better situation,but if the consoles have high demand then that won't happen.

    This is exactly what I feared after I saw the high Zen3 prices,AMD was doing a Turing. Price the new generation high so they can sell the old stock without a discount. This is what happened with Turing,Pascal stock were selling out at normal street price. People showed the same panic buying and played right into Nvidia's hands - they didn't need to deep discount many of their GPU lines.

    So expect Zen4 to probably be the same,ie,priced above Zen3. AMD isn't the value brand now - expect RDNA3 if it matches Nvidia in RT performance,and beats it in rasterised to be priced higher than Nvidia too.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 29-11-2020 at 12:45 PM.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    feeling very smug at my 3900x purchase back in Dec 2019 now even if it did cost me more than £70 over its lowest price in March 2020. I thought covid might mess things up supply-chain wise but this mess is something far beyond that!!

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Why would anyone get a Ryzen 5 3600 at £200,when for £20 more a Core i5 10600KF will blow it out of the water in gaming,and can be overclocked close to 5GHZ?? In gaming the Core i5 10600KF beats a Ryzen 7 3700X too.
    For non gaming use, I've just been looking at 10700K chips on an Asus Z490-P motherboard to get me 8 cores and two x16 slots (one only needs to be x4 electrical) and that's £500 without a cooler that can cope with 125W. Intel is really still on 2666MHz before it is considered an overclock? I'm not coming away impressed so far (though I'm not used to current Intel parts and perhaps I'm looking at the wrong things).

    But the Christmas thing, I don't remember having so many GPU, CPU and console releases just before Christmas.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    For non gaming use, I've just been looking at 10700K chips on an Asus Z490-P motherboard to get me 8 cores and two x16 slots (one only needs to be x4 electrical) and that's £500 without a cooler that can cope with 125W. Intel is really still on 2666MHz before it is considered an overclock? I'm not coming away impressed so far (though I'm not used to current Intel parts and perhaps I'm looking at the wrong things).

    But the Christmas thing, I don't remember having so many GPU, CPU and console releases just before Christmas.
    The Ryzen 7 3700X is still cheaper at its inflated price than the Core i7 10700K. However,remember the non-K models run at lower TDPs and don't really need massive amounts of cooling. Its the Ryzen 5 price and Ryzen 3 prices which are madness now.

    The Core i5 10600KF is £220 which is around the same price as the Ryzen 5 3600/3600X/3600XT,and I am not really impressed by the Zen2 Ryzen 5 CPUs at that price. The non-K Core i5 10600F/10500F/10400F are cheaper.A £25 cooler will be more than enough to run it the Core i5 10600KF at stock clockspeeds. Sure you might need more cooling if you want to tweak it but its a very good overclocker and responds well to some other tweaks. Its pretty much close to the Core i9 10900K in most games.

    Plus that is the kicker,even with 2666MHZ memory its most like a Core i5 10600KF is still as fast or faster overall in games,especially older ones where Zen2 is weaker in,and with a bit better cooler and faster RAM is much faster than any Ryzen 5.

    Also historically most GPU releases,etc tend to be end of year,its only more recently we have had more before summer. Consoles IIRC tended to be end of year too.

    Edit!!

    BTW over on OcUK forums some have been mentioning thre is noise the Ryzen 7 5700X will be an 8C/8T part in the vein of the Core i7 9700K. If that is true,then it might mean the Ryzen 5 5600 non-X is a 6C/6T part.

    I really hope AMD isn't copying Intel and now having an SMT tax.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 30-11-2020 at 02:25 PM.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    The non-K Core i5 10600F/10500F/10400F are cheaper
    I need two x16 slots though. Add in a GPU, and I need three x16 slots. If only the 4750G were properly available without having to buy a Xenta PC and change the motherboard

    I hadn't seen the non-K version of the 10700 which does look a better fit, but looks like purchasing have ordered the 3900XT and x570 combo now.

    I really hope AMD isn't copying Intel and now having an SMT tax.
    My 2200G says they have for some time, and mainstream too. And yet, I wanted the cheapest part I could buy so I got one.
    They did the 3500 6 core 6 thread as well, though not much around this country.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I need two x16 slots though. Add in a GPU, and I need three x16 slots. If only the 4750G were properly available without having to buy a Xenta PC and change the motherboard

    I hadn't seen the non-K version of the 10700 which does look a better fit, but looks like purchasing have ordered the 3900XT and x570 combo now.



    My 2200G says they have for some time, and mainstream too. And yet, I wanted the cheapest part I could buy so I got one.
    They did the 3500 6 core 6 thread as well, though not much around this country.
    The Ryzen 5 3500X was actually in stock at a few retailers until a few days ago! I actually thought it might be worth getting one,but didn't want to lose HT over my Ryzen 5 2600. At £140 it wasn't too bad a deal!

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    BTW over on OcUK forums some have been mentioning thre is noise the Ryzen 7 5700X will be an 8C/8T part in the vein of the Core i7 9700K. If that is true,then it might mean the Ryzen 5 5600 non-X is a 6C/6T part.

    I really hope AMD isn't copying Intel and now having an SMT tax.
    I really hope that isn't the case but now they have the performance I doubt they will be able to resist that kind of segmentation.
    "In a perfect world... spammers would get caught, go to jail, and share a cell with many men who have enlarged their penises, taken Viagra and are looking for a new relationship."

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      • Benq XL2730Z 1440p + Iiyama 27" 1440p
      • Internet:
      • Zen 80Mb/20Mb VDSL

    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by badass View Post
    I really hope that isn't the case but now they have the performance I doubt they will be able to resist that kind of segmentation.
    I'm not sure what it is that made such a difference, but they seem to have painted themselves into a bit of a corner. AMD are winning many game benchmarks at 6 cores with 16 cores not that much ahead. I suspect at 65W and 6 threads it will still game rather well.

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