Petition: Abolish faith schools (UK) |

[JPreston]

Are those who cannot see the problem with faith 'schools' also comfortable with the idea that Teletubby physiology should be taught as an alternative to biology, with neither set of 'theories' being given greater weight? Or that Middle Earth studies should taught as part of Geography, perhaps with the aim of 'stimulating debate in the classroom'?

[dave87]

Are those who cannot see the problem with faith 'schools' also comfortable with the idea that Teletubby physiology should be taught as an alternative to biology, with neither set of 'theories' being given greater weight? Or that Middle Earth studies should taught as part of Geography, perhaps with the aim of 'stimulating debate in the classroom'?

If we've bred a society which cannot differentiate between the logical, the plausible and the out right stupid, are we not to blame?

[JPreston]

...
I had a Muslim RE teacher in a state school, did they convert me to Islam?

No, but you wasted a lot of class time learning about fictions that would have been better spent learning something that might be actually useful to someone, somewhere, at some time.

[Agent]

If you want to live in a society where christianity is illegal and punished by the death penalty then feel free to live in China, Pakistan, North Korea etc

No particular religion is pointed out in that link.

Equally evolution shouldn't be taught as fact...

It isn't. No science is. If any science was taught as "fact", its not science. It simply smacks it in the face of what science actually is.

Indeed - the original petition is a bit OTT - and a bit vague and meaningless all at the same time.

In what way exactly?
It does raise some interesting points (segregation for one, and the dispelling of selective parts of other religions and science for another).

What do they want? Do faith schools (ie CoE, Catholic) not teach RE covering all major religions?

Its going to depend on the school. Back at secondary school we had one nut-case who believed that everyone who believed in another religion was scum (he came from a 'faith school'). I'd say friends / family would play a big part though.

Not only that, but would you believe as a Christian that a Muslim faith school would be able to give a balanced and real view of your religion?
If they believe in a different religion to you, it stands a very good chance that they will have different values which will reflect up on their teaching of your religion.

....but surely there are religious parents out there that WANT to have their children in "Faith" schools for a purpose - why deny them of that choice?

Those parents should be locked up. Poor kids.
Forced into being brain washed from an early age, into believing what their parents do (which they probably inherited for their own parents).

IMO, all kids should go to the same non-religious based schools and then allowed to make their own minds up.

and ban "the teaching of creationism and other religious mythology in all UK schools."

so you would want all RE teachers sacked?

I'd assume, given the context of in which is was written, they want these schools that primarily teach religious beliefs as fact stopped, not RE removed from the class room (especially given that it says "Faith schools remove the rights of children to choose their own religious")
Its more, give kids the choice of different invisible friends, and let them choose their own if they want one

I don't have a problem with people having a faith, each to thier own. I'd rather my tax money funding real science in UK schools.

Amen.

[G4Z]

For the record, I went to a private CofE school, which we had to pay for. We also had to pay taxes, hence the part where my parents paid twice for the education I received.
[/rant]

Well Dave, quite honestly if parents want to pay for faith schools that is up to them. They have the option of a state school like anybody else if they don't take it up that is their problem.

[Merlin4458]

my point seems the most valid so far..

[shelley bda]

At least when the Kids get to a certain age RE can be dropped.

I like the way they are going about RE at my Son's School.... it's taught in PSD, and teaches values alongside the Kids learning about differing cultures and religions, and from what i've seen in both Boy's School book there's more fact and I havent seen hide nor hair of God creating Man and the World bullpoop.

I wasn't happy last year when some Church Group went to the Primary School my Son was attending in their Bus to learn about Christianity and they were given a leaflet and it had cartoons caricatures of Man and God, Man one end of a tube and God the other and it explained how Man and God lived in harmony until Man filled up the tube ( that represented the World ) with rubbish, the rubbish got so big that Man forgot about God and when God cleared the rubbish Man didn't recognise God so Man Murdered ( yes they used the word Murder ) God by nailing him to a cross ( yes it had pictures ) but it was ok because God still loved Man and forgave him....first I laughed, then I was appalled that this rubbish can be given to young Children. The Pre-School I work for were invited on so we took our little ones, now bearing in mind they are 3 and 4 years old they were told the story about the good samaritan, and was shown a video of a Man being stoned and no-one helping, then we were told that Man was evil, luckily the Children didn't understand what was going on, but I was mortified that they can fill Kids heads with rubbish like this.

[G4Z]

If we've bred a society which cannot differentiate between the logical, the plausible and the out right stupid, are we not to blame?

Totally agree, can anybody tell me why the idea that an invisible omnipotent super being impregnated a virgin resulting in a zombie child that would go on to die, be reborn, die again and then have his 'flesh' eaten in church for 2 millenia is more plausible than the idea that the Flying Spaghetti monster created the universe out of pasta?

Hint : it isn't.

[joshwa]

To be quite honest, I don't care is 99% of people are Christian. They are still dead wrong.

So, if this were the case, you would prefer 100% of schools to not teach religion AT ALL, just for the 1% that aren't Christians? Because this is what this petition seems to amount to...

Are those who cannot see the problem with faith 'schools' also comfortable with the idea that Teletubby physiology should be taught as an alternative to biology, with neither set of 'theories' being given greater weight? Or that Middle Earth studies should taught as part of Geography, perhaps with the aim of 'stimulating debate in the classroom'?

This is a slightly different debate / discussion. In that the petition is asking for religious education to be removed from all schools in the UK - yet removing religious education from school is just like strapping blinkers to a race-horse. Surely schools are one of the best places to learn about religion - where else will they learn about all religions equally? 80% of the world is associated with a religion of one type or another - yet you don't want ANY religious education what-so-ever?

[G4Z]

Short answer, just because 99% of people believe something stupid does not mean that the belief is suddenly valid. Its still stupid.

[dave87]

Well Dave, quite honestly if parents want to pay for faith schools that is up to them. They have the option of a state school like anybody else if they don't take it up that is their problem.

It wasn't they wanted me to go to a faith school, rather they wanted me to have the best start possible. The point was rather that the petition makes more than one blind assumption, which is not always true. The school was a good one which happened to be a faith school, this was half my point. It's not simply a case of whether a school endorses one religion or other, it is about the roundedness of education, partly through the syllabus, but also the school ethic. That said, of course, it is personal choice as to the school you attend. When I was younger, we weren't as financially well equipped as we perhaps could have been, yet my parents made the required sacrifices to enable me to get the best start. How many of this generation would do that?

[Bluecube]

From the petition : "Creationism and other religious myths should not be taught as fact regardless of the funding status of a school."

Equally evolution shouldn't be taught as fact...

Sounds good to me apart from that weird statement that evolution shouldn't be taught as fact? Why not? It is fact and has absolutely nothing to do with religion!

Petition signed and I hope the government listen to this one!

[nvening]

Although I personally would like to see faith taken out of schools the point is that in this country we can believe in whatever we want and we can choose weather to send our kids to such schools or not.

And do please remember that saying science is fact is just as bad as saying a religion is fact as although science does have more compelling evidence nothing is certain, but that's going off topic...

[mart_haj86]

I went to a faith school (although I do not have one religious bone in my body), the reason why? Because it was apparently one of the best in my home town at the time.

To get into that school I had to show that I had been to church for at least a year or more and the vicar of the church I went to had to apply for me. A year of sitting on uncomfortable wooden benches, singing ridiculous choir songs and listening to an old man in a dog collar rabbit on about how some bloke on a cross gave his life for us... Was it worth the agony?

No, the school had the same usual fights in the playground, drugs being taken in the bushes and alcohol being drunk at break time. I would also say around 95% of people who went there were atheist that left church as soon as they got their acceptance into the school.

I have to ask, Why do these schools exist in the first place? I'm sure most of them experience the same attributes as the school I went to?

I do however see the need for some RE lessons just to understand other peoples beliefs so that inadvertently you don't insult someone in mid conversation.

We will never get rid of religion but at least with abolishing 'faith' schools they can concentrate on the soul purpose of a school which is to educate people on things that can really make a difference on a day to day basis.

[G4Z]

Dave, I just don't see what your point is. Your parents are free to pay to send you to a faith school, although I don't agree with indoctrination of kids it is perfectly legal (although if I had my way, it wouldn't be). I do not see why I should pay for it at all.

[staffsMike]

RE was always taught without bias at my school. We learned about everything and it was very interesting.

Religion, philosophy, science are all fascinating subjects.. you shouldn't close your minds to any of them.

Schools are about diversity.. and working out who you are.

Some people are scientists, others are artists etc.. It's ignorance and lack of tolerance that starts wars..not the religions.

I don't particularly believe faith schools are useful unless you have chosen your faith at that age and choose to go to the school.