Muslim Ghettoisation

[M0nkeyb0Y]

Don't you people learn? He's not going to be be...at least not for another 100+ posts anyway....

I know I know IBM - it's not about learning - it's about not letting bllocks go uncontested.

He's a blatant spammer and I'm pretty suprised the mods haven't banned him, given that he's hardly active and flies in to stir up controversy twice in as many years.

[iranu]

London School of Islamics is an educational Trust. Its aim is to make British public, institutions and media aware of the needs and demands of the Muslim community in the field of education and possible solutions.

Slough Islamic school Trust Slough had a seminar on Muslim
education and schools in Thames Valley Atheltic Centre. The seminar was addressed by the education spokesman of MCB. I could not attend the seminar but I believe lot of Muslims from Slough and surrounding areas must have attended. Very soon, the Muslims of Slough will have a state funded Muslim
school but there is a need for more schools. A day will come when all Muslim children will attend state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role model.

Muslim schools are not only faith schools but they are more or less bilingual schools.

Bilingual Muslim children need to learn standard English to follow the National Curriculum and go for higher studies and research to serve humanity. They need to be well versed in Arabic to recite and understand the Holy Quran. They need to be well versed in Urdu and other community languages to keep in touch with their cultural roots and enjoy the beauty of
their literature and poetry.

Bilingualism is an asset but the British schooling regards it as a
problem. A Muslim is a citizen of this tiny global village. He/she does not want to become notoriously monolingual Brit. Pakistan is only seven hours from London and majority of British Muslims are from Pakistan.

More than third of British Muslim have no qualifications. British school system has been failing large number of Muslims children for the last 60 years. Muslim scholars see the pursuit of knowledge as a duty, with the Quran containing several verses to the rewards of learning. 33% of British Muslims of working age have no qualifications and Muslims are also the least likely to have degrees or equivalent qualifications. Most of estimated 500,000 Muslim school-aged pupils in England and Wales are educated in the state system with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. Majority of them are underachievers because they are at a wrong place at a wrong time.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim child or a teacher in a Muslim school. As far as higher education is concerned, Muslim students can be educated with others. Let Muslim
community educate its own children so that they can develop their own Islamic, cultural and linguistic identities and become usefull members of the British society rather than becoming a buden.

We are living in an English speaking country and English is an
international language, therefore, we want our children to learn and be well versed in standard English and at the same time well versed in Arabic, Urdu and other community languages. Is there anything wrong with this approach?

It is not only the Muslim community who would like to send their children to Muslim school. Sikh and Hindu communities have started setting up their schools. Last week. British Black Community has planned the first all black school with Black teachers in Birmingham.

Scotland's first state funded Muslim school could get the go-ahead within months after First Munister Alex Salmond declared he was sympathetic towards the needs and demands of the Muslim community.

So self imposed apartheid basically and YOU have the gall to accuse the British people of not accepting you! This is EXACTLY what is wrong with people like you. You cannot understand that you live in a secular country, which is the best practice for protecting people of all religions and none. We need Muslim only schools like a hole in the head in this country. We need black only schools like a hole in the head too, but it looks like it may go ahead even though it is illegal due to the race relations act. It's thinking like yours that is responsible for the poor view of Muslims in this country and until you can get it into your supercilious, befuddled brain that you should not be treated preferentially, just the same as anyone else, then this country will continue to see relations worsen. Don't blame others when you see racial tensions increase and therefore racial attacks increase when you bring those very conditions upon yourselves by spouting this nonsense (such as "a day will come") and then claim victim status. It's this sort of grandstanding, conquering rhetoric that raises the hackles and causes a backlash - and rightly so. Have you not considered that Britain has been failing all school children for 60 years and not just the poor darling, "victimised" Muslims? Incidentally if you wish to put your point then I suggest you at least spell correctly, it only enhances your pseudo-academic reputation otherwise.

This is EXACTLY the reason why Britain should abolish faith schools for all religions, because unfortunately it allows the bigots to wangle their way into the education system and destabilise it, a consequence of which, is a destabilised Britain. I suspect this is exactly the goal of some Islamicists. Unfortunately it seems it's the minority who shout loudest that seem to get the headlines. If people like the OP didn't spout such nonsense then views of Muslims in Britain would be far healthier. Unfortunately this retched government has bought into listening to the views of the MCB as if they represent the majority of British Muslims. They don't.

Why cannot a non-Muslim teach Physics or Mathematics in a Muslim school? This is discrimination mate. Clear as day. If we banned Muslims from teaching in state schools or Catholic schools what do you think the reaction, of Muslim and non-Muslims alike, would be?. It's a two way street and until the likes of you can understand this and not continue your damaging demands then you are going to find relations getting worse and worse to the detriment of us all.

Your religion (and other peoples) is a private matter and should not interfere with schooling as far as I'm concerned. It wouldn't surprise me if we had people espousing teaching creationism as per the Quran in Biology classes just like the Christian fundamentalists in the USA. It's about time we emulated France and took ALL religion out of schooling, after all it doesn't affect French children's human rights. We need more integration to understand and live amongst one another and there's no better place for this than schools. We do not need forced segregation based upon stupid lines such as race, colour, religion, language or ancestry.

Let Muslim
community educate its own children so that they can develop their own Islamic, cultural and linguistic identities and become usefull members of the British society rather than becoming a buden.

They would become a burden by doing this. The culture in this country is British. There is no problem of British culture absorbing or adapting and using other cultures in the development of British culture. By adapting "Islamic, cultural (and linguistic) identities", both of which, incidentally, are inferior to western ones (that should raise a response, but I can fully justify it) and incompatible with western culture and democracy, you will simply produce alienated people and perpetuate the problems you are trying to address.

I didn't expect the OP to be back, but I see from his 2nd post exactly the mindset that I expected. He's also a spammer, but just in case we get lurkers or people from google then I think it's worth putting forth a view point just to show how wrong such thinking is. And people wonder why the BNP gets votes. And people wonder why some of us atheists see religion as a bad thing. /shakes head sadly.

[iranu]

I did a little googling and the OP is a certified nutjob and it seems he is living in Britain.

Chastity Crusade

An American Christian group is visiting Britain to preach sexual abstinence to teenagers. It is going to persuade them to wear a “chastity ring” on their wedding fingers. It is very difficult to find a virgin teenager in modern British society. Abstinence is the only way to stay disease and pregnant free. The group’s message would be irrelevant to most teenagers who are mature enough to lose their virginity at 14 or earlier. Silver Ring Thing is selling chastity rings for £10.00 to discourage teenagers from premarital sex.

The movement was founded in 1995 by Denny Pattyn in the United States. He calls today’s teenagers “the cesspool generation”. The UK has the second highest teenager pregnancy rate in the Western world. Over a million young Americans have already taken the Silver Ring Pledge. The British Humanist regards it the latest cranky Christian concept from America and has the full support of George W Bush with one million dollars as part of his campaign to replace sex education.

Western society is really un- interested in having sex free life before marriage. A Headmistress has condemned parents who allow their teenage daughters to wear skimpy clothes. Thousands of high street chemists are to be told they may be allowed to sell the morning-after pill without prescription to girls under 16.

Islam condemnation of permissive society is actually quite attractive to many who are concerned by the frightening growth of sexually transmitted diseases and break down of stable family structures. Muslim pupils need state funded Muslim schools with Muslim teachers to develop Islamic Identity. The new UK independent Party Euro MP said that business should not employ women of child –bearing age. We talk about the promiscuous society that relegates sex to a self-gratifying experience and refuses to acknowledge that self-control and having only one sexual partner for life might halt STD. In Afghanistan 99.9% of teenagers are virgin. The reason is that all teenager girls leave homes wearing Afghani Burkhas. There is no mix gathering. They attend single sex schools. They marry as early as possible. If the teenager girls start wearing Afghani Burkhas or Jilbab, I am sure that they are not going to lose their virginity before marriage. The other alternative is the wearing of Jilbab. The success of chastity crusade will depend on the number of teenagers leaving homes for schools with Jilbab or Afghani Burkhas.
Iftikhar Ahmad

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/discus/messages/11/1785.html

So there you are folks - get your daughters into the Burka asap. But don't worry, the Afghan model for the treatment of women is perfectly fine just look at how these two ended up.

http://the-rumi.blogspot.com/2008/07/taliban.html

[schmunk]

Last week. British Black Community has planned the first all black school with Black teachers in Birmingham.

Care to back that up? Can't really imagine that going on without uproar. It makes about as much sense as those emails going round saying that the Holocaust is being banned from the teaching curriculum because it offends Muslims, which is patently not true of course.

http://www.birminghampost.net/news/w...5233-19838929/

[M0nkeyb0Y]

http://www.birminghampost.net/news/w...5233-19838929/

Thanks. Sweet mercy, what is this country coming to*. Multiculturalism is the latest face of the original "Divide and Rule" philosophy.

Please... just... try... to... integrate.... if only a little.

*something I seriously never thought I'd hear myself say.

[360bhp]

I did a little googling and the OP is a certified nutjob and it seems he is living in Britain.

http://www.ekklesia.co.uk/discus/messages/11/1785.html

So there you are folks - get your daughters into the Burka asap. But don't worry, the Afghan model for the treatment of women is perfectly fine just look at how these two ended up.

http://the-rumi.blogspot.com/2008/07/taliban.html

Iranu you have some problems. You seem to be full of hatred, and want to spread it around as much as possible? You've sent a link to do with a 'terrorist' group called taliban. It has nothing to do with Islam. Anyone can see that??? I can post links to IRA killings and start flaming Irish? Or kl klux klan photos and flame anyone who is white? Before you press the post button, do your research properly!

As for the burka, it is proven to keep down the numbers of rape, std's, underage pregnancy etc. It might not make sense to you now, but if you had family/friend that was raped, and you had the chance to change it by them wearing one, I'm sure you would have asked them to wear it.

[TooNice]

“Chastity ring” - I thought that was made up for the movie 'Teeth'.

To the extent that I believe parents should be allowed some control over what their children do/wear/watch/play/behave/etc., I have no real issue with the Burqa outside of security checks. But I am not in favour of arranged marriage, and I believe that once the person is at the age where they can marry, they should be able to avoid wearing the Burqa without any pressure.

That said, I wonder how it is 'proven' that the Burqa does what it claims it does, especially as a deterrent against rape.

I am still resisting the temptation of replying to the OP - long story short, as others have expressed, it's very one sided, black and white. Immigrants vary in their willingness to integrate, and natives vary in their willingness to receive immigrants.

The path of least resistance is usually to stick with people you have more in common with hence the creation of communities with a high concentration of a particular group of people, but the reason why people choose to be in the UK may be different (it's obviously because there is some benefit to be gained, but the benefit may not necessarily cost locals anything in all cases).

[iranu]

Iranu you have some problems. You seem to be full of hatred, and want to spread it around as much as possible?

No I'm merely refuting what the OP claims. If you do a swift googling you can see that this person is using a hit and run tactic across multiple forums. You can also quite easily ascertain that this persons view is warped. I'm attacking the person and their views not Islam. Don't fall into the whole "I'm a victim and if you see things differently then you are full of hatred nonsense". I suggest you go back and actually read post #146. It calls for better understanding and integration in schools not segregation or hatred.

You've sent a link to do with a 'terrorist' group called taliban. It has nothing to do with Islam. Anyone can see that??? I can post links to IRA killings and start flaming Irish? Or kl klux klan photos and flame anyone who is white? Before you press the post button, do your research properly!

You need to read my post and the link within the context in which it was made. This bloke is advocating the burka and using Afghanistan as an example and model for our society! If I had posted claiming that the KKK or Irish terrorism was a good model to base society on then you'd be justified, however, again you fall into the hole that so many Muslims do and that is, any criticism is automatically a bad thing and is directed at them. Don't be so quick to take umbrage, it's not an attack on Islam or yourself it's an attack on the OP and his claims.

The Taliban use and interpret the Quran to produce this abhorrent society whereby women are little more than goods so it does have something to do with Islam, not everything but something. It may not be your interpretation, but that is what they use. There needs to be healthy open debate among Muslims with regard to their religion so that a more moderate view prevails worldwide. Don't forget that they actually held power in Afghanistan for 7 years so were in "government". The plight of women in that time was dire - see video of the execution of burka clad women in the football stadium.

As for the burka, it is proven to keep down the numbers of rape, std's, underage pregnancy etc. It might not make sense to you now, but if you had family/friend that was raped, and you had the chance to change it by them wearing one, I'm sure you would have asked them to wear it.

Your appeal to emotion is noted. What makes me laugh is the fact that in areas where the burka is prevalent children, whom we'd call underage, regularly bear children. Why is it that the Swedes, who do not make their girls/women wear burkas can have a very low underage pregnancy rate even when the levels of sexual activity are equal to those in Britain and the USA?

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/3324401.html



And the same is true of STDs. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...051500809.html

You ought to look here for the facts http://www.avert.org/stdstatisticsworldwide.htm

When it comes to women's overall health why is it that Islamic countries fare so badly? http://www.ispub.com/ostia/index.php...4n1/arabic.xml

Education and better healthcare is the way forward, not producing a society whereby it's women who have to suffer. There are many Muslim organisations trying to do exactly that, but they face an uphill battle because such chauvinistic attitudes prevail in heavily patriarchal societies.

[TheAnimus]

As for the burka, it is proven to keep down the numbers of rape, std's, underage pregnancy etc. It might not make sense to you now, but if you had family/friend that was raped, and you had the chance to change it by them wearing one, I'm sure you would have asked them to wear it.

Ok this one hit the nerve a bit.

I've known very closely 3 people who've been raped.

And can i just say your a monsterous runt to thinks that woman are somehow in need of been veiled from the world to protect it.

So, its not the fact that there are people giong round commiting horrific crimes, its the fact they can see someone is attractive. As such we should keep them locked up in the dungeon.

This is NO different for someone saying that because someone has x attribute, they're likely to be the victim of racisim, lets send them to a camp for their own protection.

You been muslim should be banned from the internet, because its possible you could be brainwashed into been an extreamist. Agree with that? Or does it only apply when its used against an inferior being?

[360bhp]

Iranu.. I see most of your knowledge about religion comes from the internet, hence why you have to post links to prove your point. As you know, or as you don't know, the internet is full of alot of information that is wrong. You should really try to research into things properly, rather than skimming over someones article and linking to it.

Ok this one hit the nerve a bit.

I've known very closely 3 people who've been raped.

And can i just say your a monsterous runt to thinks that woman are somehow in need of been veiled from the world to protect it.

I know people who have been raped aswell.

"Monsterous runt?" How about.. This is REAL life, where rapes DO happen and there are filthy paedophiles and perverts loose.

So, its not the fact that there are people giong round commiting horrific crimes, its the fact they can see someone is attractive. As such we should keep them locked up in the dungeon.

How is a woman WANTING to wear a headscarf and wanting to not show the curves of her figure to random men who want to perve on her, similar to being locked up in a dungeon?

[Nelsaidi]

As a muslim i can say - in islam a women should cover up her body. It doesnt stop perves perving on her, but, she should still do it and has every right to do so. some muslims choose not to wear it, thats their decision. The veil doesnt protect them.

also - British school system has been failing large number of Muslims children for the last 60 years, take it from me thats BS.

It is not, never has been, and never will, the curriculm treats all students alike, even east europeans who dont understand english coming to the UK after 1 year end up being fluent - ive seen it, and many muslims that come who only know a few words in english after one year are fluent. So, believe me thats pure bs. I hate to say so but a private islamic school is the worst one in the bourough with only 10% of students getting A to C in GCSE's

An islamic school mainly focuses on teaching arabic and islam extensively, and teaching the quaran. But, based on what i said above i dont even know what else they teach.

For those purposes listed above many saturday schools run to do with islam,arabic and the quaran.

[Nelsaidi]

In Afghanistan 99.9% of teenagers are virgin. The reason is that all teenager girls leave homes wearing Afghani Burkhas. There is no mix gathering. They attend single sex schools. They marry as early as possible. If the teenager girls start wearing Afghani Burkhas or Jilbab, I am sure that they are not going to lose their virginity before marriage. The other alternative is the wearing of Jilbab. The success of chastity crusade will depend on the number of teenagers leaving homes for schools with Jilbab or Afghani Burkhas.

Its nothing to do with what they were, but how much strong they believe in the religion. Usually its the parents decission on what to wear, rather than them, so, if they dont strongly believe in what their religion says about sex, and their parents force them to wear that then will it stop them from doing what they want? No.

[iranu]

Iranu.. I see most of your knowledge about religion comes from the internet, hence why you have to post links to prove your point.

No, it does not. If you had bothered to read the links then you would see that they are articles concerned with the topics you raised i.e. STDs, underage pregnancy etc. If you had read the first link you would see that Islam or Muslim nations are not mentioned because it deals solely with Canada, the United States, Sweden, France and Great Britain with 19 supplied references. It's linked to show evidence that backs a point, namely that Sweden has low instances of the topics you brought up, but they do not have women wearing the burka. Why is that?

Secondly my knowledge of Islam mainly comes from one of my co-workers whom I've known for 4 1/2 years and been acquainted with on and off since 1999. He is a very devout Muslim, lived in this country for 25 years, originally from Pakistan (and never been racially abused in the UK), well respected (and a leader) in his community and amongst the department and the company as a whole. He most certainly disagrees with women wearing the burka not only because doing so snubs western society and culture, but because it's simply not required in Islam. This bloke has earned my respect, he is always happy to answer questions even though this is probably tiresome. He has never preached or tried to convert and happy to offer me his own reference material. He is probably the most moderate and laid back Muslim I'm ever likely to meet, we accommodate him (keeps his prayer mat in the x-ray diffraction machine's room for lunchtime prayer), he accommodates us (very occasionally we need to use that machine at lunch, he understands and asks for some time alone as soon as we are finished). He is as concerned about the rise of radical Islam just as much as anyone else because it affects him and his friends most, he is involved at the grass roots level in stopping it happening.

As you know, or as you don't know, the internet is full of alot of information that is wrong. You should really try to research into things properly, rather than skimming over someones article and linking to it.

Yep, and that's why I fully read articles before I link them so that I know they have full relevance. I also use my "better judgement" and experience to see whether the article is biased or from a dubious source. If you have a problem with the links then I suggest you refute them properly rather than accusing me of skimming and linking them.

[TheAnimus]

I know people who have been raped aswell.

"Monsterous runt?" How about.. This is REAL life, where rapes DO happen and there are filthy paedophiles and perverts loose.

i'm shocked you called them people, rather than possessions. This is real life, stabbings happen, you shouldn't leave your home. This is real life, people who are technically compitetent could get logs, and are borderline physcotic could track you down. Don't use the internet. They might kill you. Veil yourself from life.

How is a woman WANTING to wear a headscarf and wanting to not show the curves of her figure to random men who want to perve on her, similar to being locked up in a dungeon?

Aside from the fact i've seen this argument used against a child who wanted to have sex with her step dad with the same vigor, we can easily say that it wasn't in the context of people who want to wear something. But those who feal compelled to as its the only way to not get raped.

[360bhp]

i'm shocked you called them people, rather than possessions. This is real life, stabbings happen, you shouldn't leave your home. This is real life, people who are technically compitetent could get logs, and are borderline physcotic could track you down. Don't use the internet. They might kill you. Veil yourself from life.

Why would I call people posessions? What are you talking about

If i woman WANTS to cover up, and have some respect for herself, LET HER. End of.

[TheAnimus]

As for the burka, it is proven to keep down the numbers of rape, std's, underage pregnancy etc. It might not make sense to you now, but if you had family/friend that was raped, and you had the chance to change it by them wearing one, I'm sure you would have asked them to wear it.

Why would I call people posessions? What are you talking about

If i woman WANTS to cover up, and have some respect for herself, LET HER. End of.

Spot the bits that really peeved me off.