Are you religious?

[Stewart]

We're all entitled to our opinions I guess. What made you decide that the bible is historically inaccurate?

I think it was something to do with the talking snake, virgin birth, rising from the dead, etc, etc...

Faced with such nonsense you really only have two choices, you can either go 'It's teh miracle!!11!!11 God > You!11!!' or you can dismiss it as childish nonsense used by the hard of thinking as a cheap cop-out to explain those things they can not explain.

I loathe all forms of organised religion, and I voted Atheist on the poll.

EDIT - Having said that, I, of course, defend everyone's right to believe in whatever mush they see fit, as the only thing worse than organised religion, is when the freedom of choice is removed and the single choice taken to extreme's, and the inevitable vilolence and opression that follows, such as the situation with the Taliban and their charming form of religious extremeism.

[Galant]

I think the fact that God hasn't, on record, divinely intervened with anything proves it. Call your bible card and I'll slap you.

Jesus Christ.

"Christianity, if false, is of no importance, and if true, of infinite importance. The only thing it cannot be is moderately important."
~C. S. Lewis

For those who hold no opinion, have not come to a conclusion, or claim to really care about the issue of understanding the universe, the bravest and most honest thing to do is to make an honest investigation of the claims and facts of Christianity. That would also seem to me to be he most honestly scientific thing to do.

Perhaps some of the most common complaints I hear are:

1 - It's for non-thinking people. - Some of the world's brightest people have been Christians. Many advances in science and history and other fields have been brought about by Christians. Within the Christianity today there are many who are intelligent, thinking, and who wish to be honest and logical.

2 - It's a crutch/something to turn to in need - That doesn't hold up when you consider how there have been hundreds and thousands of Christians for whom life woud have been easier and more pleasureable...and longer, had they decided to leave those 'stories' behind. Of the very first disciples the majority were killed (often brutally) for their beliefs. Following them, hundreds through history have suffered and died for their 'relationship with Jesus Christ'.

3 - It's all just a bunch of fairy tales - An honest look at the various books in the Bible will show that there is reason to hold them up as reliable, not similar to works of mythology, and actually quite remarkable as ancient literature goes.

4 - Miracles, sound a bit far fetched don't they - Well yes, that would be the nature of miracles - things that don't often or usually happen. However to argue that just because something does usually happen then it can never happen seems to me to be faulty logic and circular reasoning.

I once heard miracles explained and a very clear fashion (I think it was CS Lewis' book 'Miracles').

Take a pool table. Put a couple of balls on it. We all know that when one strikes the cue ball sending it into one of the other balls it is going to have a predictable result. Physics allows us to figure it out.

So, imagine a player who takes a shot but as the cue ball is moving someone walks up with a cue and shoots it elsewhere whilst in motion. Apart from annoying everyone involved, nothing 'weird' happened. The laws of physics weren't suspended, everything worked exactly as it was supposed to. It was just that what everyone was expecting didn't happen because another force came into play.

So it is with miracles. All goes along as it is supposed to until acted upon by an unexpected and unseen force.

5 - Christianity is stupid/doesn't work, take a look at the Church - The most difficult of questions. If I may post one issue that relates to this subject:

"having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them."
2 Timothy 3:5

The 19th-century Danish theologian Soren Kierkegaard identified two kinds of religion -- Religion A and Religion B. The first is "faith" in name only (2 Tim. 3:5). It's the practice of attending church without genuine faith in the living Lord.

Religion B, on the other hand, is a life-transforming, destiny-changing experience. It's a definite commitment to the crucified and risen Savior, which establishes an ongoing personal relationship between a forgiven sinner and a gracious God.

This difference explains why for many years British author C.S. Lewis had such great difficulty in becoming a Christian. Religion A had blinded him to Religion B. According to his brother Warren, his conversion was "no sudden plunge into a new life, but rather a slow, steady convalescence from a deep-seated spiritual illness - an illness that had its origins in our childhood, in the dry husks of religion offered by the semi-political churchgoing of Ulster, and the similar dull emptiness of compulsory church during our school days."

Having said that there even within the true Church there is much to be ashamed of and to apologise for, and you know what? I do. I apologise for times when Christians have treated you badly, perhaps abused you, especially when done in the name of faith or God. I'm sorry that there have been people who have made promises and not kept them or made statements and by their behaviour denied them. As Christians we have a call to treat people in the best way possible. To love them and to sacrifice even our own comfort and needs to meet those of others. If anyone here has been hurt by a Christian or church then I am sorry.

There are many issues that need addressing within the Church, and we have to get them sorted out.

[Emzay]

Not religious here, neither are parents. Guess we have no reason to be :/

[headbrace]

Religion B, on the other hand, is a life-transforming, destiny-changing experience. It's a definite commitment to the crucified and risen Savior, which establishes an ongoing personal relationship between a forgiven sinner and a gracious God

Galant, you know there are other religions apart form Christianity. Please don't turn this into a "you either are christian or nothing" debate.

Having said that there even within the true Church

I don't think you can call it the true church. Perhaps it is true to your belief, but then each church/ religion is usually true to its members. Calling your own church the true one means that others churches or lack of are false. Which you can't say

As Christians we have a call to treat people in the best way possible. To love them and to sacrifice even our own comfort and needs to meet those of others. If anyone here has been hurt by a Christian or church then I am sorry.

There are many issues that need addressing within the Church, and we have to get them sorted out.

There is an awful lot of "we", and I don't think you can talk for other people.

I don't mind that other people don't believe the same as me, I don't think you will be smoted for it. What I don't like is people a) assuming they are right and b) not respecting other people views

[turkster]

I don't mind that other people don't believe the same as me, I don't think you will be smoted for it. What I don't like is people a) assuming they are right and b) not respecting other people views

Problem is Christians have to assume they are right otherwise they wouldnt have faith .

[Galant]

Headbrace:

So people have to assume they are wrong, or maybe walk around in constant uncertainty?

I don't mind people thinking they are right as long as they've put some reason behind that thought, and that they are honest and open.

As for my talking about Christianity - 1 that was a direct quote - 2 - if I can't talk for other Christians' points of view, I can hardly talk about anyone else's religions. What's more, to talk about religion in general becomes quite problematic since there are so many varied religions in this world each offering different views and claiming different solutions, attitudes and behaviours.

Perhaps to drag the thread over to those lines it could be asked why anyone has the complusion to believe in 'something else' (a force beyond), and why anyone would continue to believe in such a force? How's that?

Finally, as to the 'true' Church if you'll re-read the full quote then you'll understand that a distinction is made between two types of Christian. One that almost all Christians woud maintain. Perhaps an example of that distinction would be someone who lists themselves as a Christian but states that they do not practise, go to Church, or really believe the Bible, and someone who not only calls themselves a Christian, attends a church, serves, and seeks to put Biblical teaching into practise throught their own life. I think that's a reasonable distinction to make. CS Lewis apprently thought so.

[Knoxville]

1 - It's for non-thinking people. - Some of the world's brightest people have been Christians. Many advances in science and history and other fields have been brought about by Christians. Within the Christianity today there are many who are intelligent, thinking, and who wish to be honest and logical.

Your level of intelligence has absouloutly nothing to do with your belief's, If you are conditioned at a young age to believe in christianity you will, wether you've got an I.Q of 800 or 80 it doesn't matter, christianity is for people that don't want to or at not allowed at an early age to form they're own belief's I don't suppose very many people would take on the idea of virgin births, women made out of a blokes ribs and a man coming back from the dead as fact if presented to them as adults with no prior conditioning.

2 - It's a crutch/something to turn to in need - That doesn't hold up when you consider how there have been hundreds and thousands of Christians for whom life woud have been easier and more pleasureable...and longer, had they decided to leave those 'stories' behind. Of the very first disciples the majority were killed (often brutally) for their beliefs. Following them, hundreds through history have suffered and died for their 'relationship with Jesus Christ'.

And many more have suffered at the hands of christians who believe they follow the true faith, Saying life would've been easier for them doesn't address the issue that people turn to it when they fear whats happening around them, because its all one big comfort blanket, in one nice book it explains how we got here, what we should act like and it even throws in some after school style stories to teach us about morals.

3 - It's all just a bunch of fairy tales - An honest look at the various books in the Bible will show that there is reason to hold them up as reliable, not similar to works of mythology, and actually quite remarkable as ancient literature goes.

reliable? Were you there when all this happened? thought not, If the bible truly is from ancient times then it didn't just appear in a nice neat hard back copy for you to keep next to the bed, It would've more than likely been handed down through people (we all know what chinese whispers end up like) and even if it was written then its most probably been translated into different language's many many times, your telling me over 2 thousand years of being re-written no mistakes were made? nothing was changed? a page didn't fall out? I don't buy it tbh

4 - Miracles, sound a bit far fetched don't they - Well yes, that would be the nature of miracles - things that don't often or usually happen. However to argue that just because something does usually happen then it can never happen seems to me to be faulty logic and circular reasoning.

I once heard miracles explained and a very clear fashion (I think it was CS Lewis' book 'Miracles').

Take a pool table. Put a couple of balls on it. We all know that when one strikes the cue ball sending it into one of the other balls it is going to have a predictable result. Physics allows us to figure it out.

So, imagine a player who takes a shot but as the cue ball is moving someone walks up with a cue and shoots it elsewhere whilst in motion. Apart from annoying everyone involved, nothing 'weird' happened. The laws of physics weren't suspended, everything worked exactly as it was supposed to. It was just that what everyone was expecting didn't happen because another force came into play.

So it is with miracles. All goes along as it is supposed to until acted upon by an unexpected and unseen force.

An unexpected an unseen force that for no scientifically proven reason allows a fully grown man to walk on water? No you can pull out the definition of miracles saying that they are "things that don't often or usually happen"
There is no such force that can do this, it can't just pull a neat little trick like that and then scurry off behind the sofa now can it? Over the 2 thousand years since the unique circumstances of that day which allowed this rarely seen force to come into play we would surely have seen these conditions repeat themselves.......no? well im sorry if over the course of 2 thousand years something with no logical explanation and no evidence other than a story book hasn;t happened again then im not liable to believe it ever has or ever will.

5 - Christianity is stupid/doesn't work, take a look at the Church - The most difficult of questions. If I may post one issue that relates to this subject:

"having a form of godliness but denying its power. Have nothing to do with them."
2 Timothy 3:5

The 19th-century Danish theologian Soren Kierkegaard identified two kinds of religion -- Religion A and Religion B. The first is "faith" in name only (2 Tim. 3:5). It's the practice of attending church without genuine faith in the living Lord.

Religion B, on the other hand, is a life-transforming, destiny-changing experience. It's a definite commitment to the crucified and risen Savior, which establishes an ongoing personal relationship between a forgiven sinner and a gracious God.

This difference explains why for many years British author C.S. Lewis had such great difficulty in becoming a Christian. Religion A had blinded him to Religion B. According to his brother Warren, his conversion was "no sudden plunge into a new life, but rather a slow, steady convalescence from a deep-seated spiritual illness - an illness that had its origins in our childhood, in the dry husks of religion offered by the semi-political churchgoing of Ulster, and the similar dull emptiness of compulsory church during our school days."

In the 19th century we thought the earth was flat and that the oceans were inhabited by half women half fish who tempted men to they're doom on rocky outcrops in the sea, so the fact that someone, albeit a clever someone came up with a theory about religion back then doesn't sway me a great deal, sorry.

As for c.s lewis's problem maybe it took him so long because you don't automatically believe something straight away? If i tell you that if you get a crab drunk it walks sideways will you belive me straight away? No you'll think about for what may be a very short period of time and either dismiss it or become interested and decide to find out weather im telling the truth or not for yourself. C.S Lewis took the second option, it just took him a while to believe in christianity to the extent you mention.

Having said that there even within the true Church there is much to be ashamed of and to apologise for, and you know what? I do. I apologise for times when Christians have treated you badly, perhaps abused you, especially when done in the name of faith or God. I'm sorry that there have been people who have made promises and not kept them or made statements and by their behaviour denied them. As Christians we have a call to treat people in the best way possible. To love them and to sacrifice even our own comfort and needs to meet those of others. If anyone here has been hurt by a Christian or church then I am sorry.

There are many issues that need addressing within the Church, and we have to get them sorted out.

My argument is not with the church, it is with organised religion and the way it is forced on people in all its different forms. Religion as a whole is a half arsed bundle of storys and exagerration why on earth would an organisation such as the church be any better than the foundation its based on?

I mean no offence by anything i've written here, nor do I mean this post to mock people that follow a religion, these are simply my belief's, you have your's and I'm entitled to mine aswell, the only difference between us is that my beliefs don't kill people.

[Theo]

Jesus Christ.

If that's a disagreement chap, bite me. If it's your example of divine intervention - *slap*.

I'm going to stay out of this God/No God argument now, because my mind is set. I'm not closed minded at all - I like hearing opinions, but I don't like being preached at, and your post seems to do that. Apologies if that wasn't your intention chap, no offense intended.

[ultimate]

My "arguement" is simple ---which came first then hen or the egg, when that is answered then maybe we might have the answer to religion and also to a lot of other unanswerable questions

[Moonshade]

My "arguement" is simple ---which came first then hen or the egg, when that is answered then maybe we might have the answer to religion and also to a lot of other unanswerable questions

Hehe, maybe .

[nichomach]

Your level of intelligence has absouloutly nothing to do with your belief's, If you are conditioned at a young age to believe in christianity you will, wether you've got an I.Q of 800 or 80 it doesn't matter, christianity is for people that don't want to or at not allowed at an early age to form they're own belief's I don't suppose very many people would take on the idea of virgin births, women made out of a blokes ribs and a man coming back from the dead as fact if presented to them as adults with no prior conditioning.

Actually, millions do every year, Knoxy; myself among them. I was raised in an at best agnostic household and came to Chrisitianity rather late on, in my late twenties. I most certainly was allowed to form my own beliefs; it's just that like millions of perfectly sensible ordinary adults I came to a belief in God.

And many more have suffered at the hands of christians who believe they follow the true faith,

Or have followed Marxism or National Socialism or manifest destiny or historical inevitability or whatever. You don't need religion to provide an excuse for evil conduct; humans are easily imperfect enough to create excuses for themselves.

Saying life would've been easier for them doesn't address the issue that people turn to it when they fear whats happening around them, because its all one big comfort blanket, in one nice book it explains how we got here, what we should act like and it even throws in some after school style stories to teach us about morals.

My coming to faith certainly had nothing to do with fear or a desire for a comfort blanket; indeed, were that the case, there were times in my life when I would have needed that far more than when I became a Christian. But then I have never met a Christian who became one through fear.

I mean no offence by anything i've written here, nor do I mean this post to mock people that follow a religion, these are simply my belief's, you have your's and I'm entitled to mine aswell, the only difference between us is that my beliefs don't kill people.

Neither do the beliefs of millions of Christians, or Muslims, or Jews or Hindus or Sikhs...

You don't need a religion to provide an excuse for evil acts.

By the way:

In the 19th century we thought the earth was flat and that the oceans were inhabited by half women half fish who tempted men to they're doom on rocky outcrops in the sea, so the fact that someone, albeit a clever someone came up with a theory about religion back then doesn't sway me a great deal, sorry.

Errrr...the 19th century on WHAT PLANET? For pity's sake Knoxy, in the 19th century on earth we'd known that the earth was round for several hundred years, and mermaids were regarded as myths. The charts didn't read "here be dragons" and so far from believing the world to be flat, John Harrison had produced his first marine chronometer in 1737 (that would be some 63 years before the 19th century began) to deal with the problem of accurately reckoning longitude.

[midzt]

One thing I don't get about Christianity is that my R.E teacher said that he believed in Evolution AND the Bible and the books of Genesis etc. But don't they contradict?

Problem is science is beginning to have answers that wasonce answered by religions and this causes religious people to interpret their holy books differrently.

After asking my teacher how that was possible he pretended to not hear then carried on with the lesson. hmmm And he said I had an inbalanced world view just cos I don't believe in one single, I kinda take aspect of religions that I think true then add it to the science that I know.

[fondie]

As for the stories about Jesus, well, at the time, those who spread the stories were willing to die in horrific manners to spread the news, would you do that if you made it up?

hehe. that's the best bit so far. continue.

[Alex]

Blimey, you go away for 12 hours, and look what you have to come back to! This could take a while... let's beging:

No idea what an aethist or agnostic is (I used to!), but I'm not religious. No offense intended to anyone's beliefs, because it's a free world and you can believe what you want. But to me, the idea of a God, Heaven and Hell is ridiculous. It baffles me how a thousand and odd years on from the dark ages so many people still bow down to something that, if you think about it, is completely impossible (God, a higher power, etc).

This is my opinion, so don't smite me. God didn't make man, nor did build the world in 7 days. The fact that we are actually here is because of a fluke in astrophysics, microbology (if that's a word) and evolution. The fact that we are the dominant race is down to bloody good genetics (though in some cases, the genepool could do with some really good cleansing -chavs), and evolution.

Apologies if you're offended.

A literal translation of Genesis (God, please not let's go there) would lead you to believe that your view was incompatible with Christianity, as to why we're here. I believe that we came here by the route of Genetics, physics, and chemistry. The only difference is that I don't think it was a fluke.

But then I believe in this "ridiculous" idea of God.

The fact that we are actually here is because of a fluke in astrophysics, microbiology and evolution.

Yes and no, see above.

imho god doesn't exist the whole story just doesn't follow, Besides, even if he does exist we're all going to "hell" no matter what religion we do or don't follow as every man is by gods definition born a sinner iirc.

Which bit of the story doesn't flow?

As to whether we're all going to hell, well, that ain't an easy one. How can we say that "Jesus is th only way to heaven"? It seems a little harsh, doesn't it? I think Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury best summarised my views on th subject. This is from an article on him:

Williams said that neither he nor any Christian could control access to heaven. "It is possible for God's spirit to cross boundaries," he said.

"I say this as someone who is quite happy to say that Jesus is the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except by Jesus. But how God leads people through Jesus to heaven, that can be quite varied, I think."

I think it's just important to realise that no-one has all the answers.

I can't believe the results of the survey, i would have thought there are more agnostics out there than what can be seen in the pole.

A vote for "i dont know" is a vote for the thinking man.

There wasn't an agnostic option, so people couldn't really vote agnostic. I'd guess that most atheists would vote agnostic, as very few people would claim to have all the answers on such things.

I guess we're all agnositc in a way, myself and most Christians included, how many people have sorted out everything they believe about life?

I remember some years ago now, it must've been in College or in school or somthing, that some Christian fellows came in for a 'chat'. Apparantly they were going to tell us why they chose their faith. I was genuinely interested. I didn't doubt back then. They obviously didn't think about it. One guy said he had a near death experience, so he turned to religion... 'what'? we pretty much collectively said, 'why'? Errr he said, and looks inquisitively to his 'superior' hoping for an answer, and we get one, some absolute flowerey nonsense. OK, I thought, that's to be expected, they ARE Christians after all. 'So why did you choose Christianity in particular'? ... Errrr, followed by another sheepish look to his superior. Easiest to follow? Least work involved? You don't have to wear any particularly silly adornments like other Religions?

My good 'GOD' i detest religion. And so much for standing for 'Christian' values! I apologise, but I can more than make do with good values then calling those values Christian or Religious. I honestly do believe that half of the millions, or indeed billions of People around the world who are religious do it because it's a matter of course, it's just what you do, and to me those that fall into this category are 'divinely' stupid. The others who really believe wholeheartedly in their 'Religion' I believe should commit to ALWAYS seek the truth in a world of lies, and perhaps there is some hope.

Please bear in mind before you take any offense, i'm talking about Religion only. The purported tat that that so many millions 'believe' in. A subscription to a extremist cult.

Please, for the sake of millions of people in the future, question your Religious endorsement and adopt your own, personal faith.

Religion IS Nihilism. Religion is the philosophy of nothing. Adopt your own beliefs, but don't purport it as Religion.

Unfortunately only those who are firm believers, or those who are there for their own, personal gain can reclaim the worlds hearts and minds and let everyone reason together. It will be difficult to change the concept of truth.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some pills to take...

I don't really know what to say about those people you met, people like that come across to me as stupidly as they did to you. Blind faith without a reason really gets to me. People who pick a religion because its 'easy' are completely missing the point. Besides, Christianity isn't easy, its just easy to fake living the Christian lifestyle, as lots of people do. There is a big difference.

There is again here the idea of sheep with all exactly the same views, the "you will believe this" culture, and no-one with their own personal faith. This is, at the very least in my experience, not at all the case. Me and most of my Christian friends disagree on lots of topics within the idea of the Christian faith, but still believe in the same 'core' beliefs. Also, I, and many of my christian friends, were not brought up christian, but have come to that decision on our own, and not due to a need to feel 'in' or wanted, but because it does seem logical to us, ridiculous as that may sound to you.

As for Christian values, where did you think the idea came from? Even if you live those values with no relation to faith whatsoever, do you not think that they at least originated in religion?

[Alex]

I think it was something to do with the talking snake, virgin birth, rising from the dead, etc, etc...

Faced with such nonsense you really only have two choices, you can either go 'It's teh miracle!!11!!11 God > You!11!!' or you can dismiss it as childish nonsense used by the hard of thinking as a cheap cop-out to explain those things they can not explain.

I loathe all forms of organised religion, and I voted Atheist on the poll.

EDIT - Having said that, I, of course, defend everyone's right to believe in whatever mush they see fit, as the only thing worse than organised religion, is when the freedom of choice is removed and the single choice taken to extreme's, and the inevitable vilolence and opression that follows, such as the situation with the Taliban and their charming form of religious extremeism.

There's an awful lot of hatred of organised religion going on here, isn't there?

Anyway, Many of the stories of the old testament were meant to make a point, and be theological truths rather than historical ones. Ctreation is a prime example. Other stories are more historical, yet seem unrealistic now. Things like Noah's ark and Moses staff turning into a snake. There are loads of stories (extra-biblical) from the region of Noah's flood, of a local flood which killed all life in the region etc, which all come from the same sort of time as Noah's supposed flood. The Egyptians of Rammesses II had plenty of stories of their own court magicians turning sticks into snakes.

As for the miracles of Jesus, why are they so hard to believe? I mean hey, we can probably make a virgin pregant now with modern science, should we want to, so why should it be beyond God? There's no need for any 'It's teh miracle!!11!!11 God > You!11!!'here, just because I believe that a man who was the son of God can do things that are a little out of the ordinary doesn't make me some annoying 13 year old l33t retard.

Your level of intelligence has absouloutly nothing to do with your belief's, If you are conditioned at a young age to believe in christianity you will, wether you've got an I.Q of 800 or 80 it doesn't matter, christianity is for people that don't want to or at not allowed at an early age to form they're own belief's I don't suppose very many people would take on the idea of virgin births, women made out of a blokes ribs and a man coming back from the dead as fact if presented to them as adults with no prior conditioning.

You'd be surprised. Some of it many people don't believe is literal, especially Genesis, and there are plenty of people who are christians who weren't brought up like that.

And many more have suffered at the hands of christians who believe they follow the true faith, Saying life would've been easier for them doesn't address the issue that people turn to it when they fear whats happening around them, because its all one big comfort blanket, in one nice book it explains how we got here, what we should act like and it even throws in some after school style stories to teach us about morals.

I didn't turn to it for it's comfort blanket-ness (for lack of a better word). In fact I was very happy and contented before I became a Christian (and still am),

As to morals, as I've already said, religion is where we, at least originally, got our morals from. What other basis for morality is there?

reliable? Were you there when all this happened? thought not, If the bible truly is from ancient times then it didn't just appear in a nice neat hard back copy for you to keep next to the bed, It would've more than likely been handed down through people (we all know what chinese whispers end up like) and even if it was written then its most probably been translated into different language's many many times, your telling me over 2 thousand years of being re-written no mistakes were made? nothing was changed? a page didn't fall out? I don't buy it tbh

That's your choice, but get the facts straight first. We have many different copies of bits from the old testament (an the new) which were passed down separately, and they all fit together rather well actually. Things like, as I mentioned before, the dead sea scrolls, which had been untouched for thousands of years, matched up to the copies of scripture we had 'passed down' to us. as for the chinese whispers things, its not like they were passed on year after year, and when it was passed on, do you not think people would have made an effort to keep it reliable if it was the word of God? After all, this isn't people whispering to each other on street corners, this is what was being tacght daily in the temple. Its accuracy would have been looked after.

As for the languages, again, as I've said, it was translated into thousands of languages, rather than through thousands of languages. I agree that its stupid to get hung up on what specific words mean, but the essence of what every bit of the bible is about, I believe, remains faithful to what it originally meant. You are of course, free to disagree. Historians do, however, trust the bible as a reliable source for the time it was written.

An unexpected an unseen force that for no scientifically proven reason allows a fully grown man to walk on water? No you can pull out the definition of miracles saying that they are "things that don't often or usually happen"

There is no such force that can do this, it can't just pull a neat little trick like that and then scurry off behind the sofa now can it? Over the 2 thousand years since the unique circumstances of that day which allowed this rarely seen force to come into play we would surely have seen these conditions repeat themselves.......no? well im sorry if over the course of 2 thousand years something with no logical explanation and no evidence other than a story book hasn;t happened again then im not liable to believe it ever has or ever will.

Yeah, but the point was rather that Jesus was the only one able to do it. And he hasn't been back since, so the conditions haven't repeated themselves.

As to the accuracy of the story, well, yeah, that's one of faith, but if he was the son of God, I dont see why its so hard.

In the 19th century we thought the earth was flat and that the oceans were inhabited by half women half fish who tempted men to they're doom on rocky outcrops in the sea, so the fact that someone, albeit a clever someone came up with a theory about religion back then doesn't sway me a great deal, sorry.

As for c.s lewis's problem maybe it took him so long because you don't automatically believe something straight away? If i tell you that if you get a crab drunk it walks sideways will you belive me straight away? No you'll think about for what may be a very short period of time and either dismiss it or become interested and decide to find out weather im telling the truth or not for yourself. C.S Lewis took the second option, it just took him a while to believe in christianity to the extent you mention.

Not that this is necessarily relevant, but apparently, there is very little historical evidence for th belief in the middle ages that the world was flat. Besides, even if it did, they believed that 'cause it fitted in with their observations of gravity etc at the time, rather than because of religion.

My argument is not with the church, it is with organised religion and the way it is forced on people in all its different forms. Religion as a whole is a half arsed bundle of storys and exagerration why on earth would an organisation such as the church be any better than the foundation its based on?

People always have the ability to make a choice, you can never be forced to believe something. And the church is only as good as the foundation it's built on, its just that you and I disagree as to the reliability of that foundation.

I mean no offence by anything i've written here, nor do I mean this post to mock people that follow a religion, these are simply my belief's, you have your's and I'm entitled to mine aswell, the only difference between us is that my beliefs don't kill people.

My views have never killed anyone, and Christianity hasn't killed anyone other than Christians anyway, its just been used as an excuse to kill people, eg the crusades. That was politics, not the love of God.



One final point. People here repeatedly say they mean no offense, then call my religion things like 'tat', 'mush', and 'frankly ridiculaous'. If you didn't want to be offensive then I'm sure it wouldn't have taken you long to think of less offensive ways of putting it, would it?

BTW, I really cba to check my grammar on such long posts, so please don't go commenting on it.

[Alex]

One thing I don't get about Christianity is that my R.E teacher said that he believed in Evolution AND the Bible and the books of Genesis etc. But don't they contradict?

Problem is science is beginning to have answers that wasonce answered by religions and this causes religious people to interpret their holy books differrently.

After asking my teacher how that was possible he pretended to not hear then carried on with the lesson. hmmm And he said I had an inbalanced world view just cos I don't believe in one single, I kinda take aspect of religions that I think true then add it to the science that I know.

Yes, they are compatible. Genesis is nothing more than a story designed to show the theological thruths it contains.