Coronavirus

[DanceswithUnix]

If people consider themselves to be vulnerable, they should be able to self-isolate and be supported in doing so. That means no mandatory isolation for anyone.

So people who are healthy but self-important can expect to be self isolating and have us run around after them? I believe Amazon have a list of people in this country who are considered vulnerable by the state who get Amazon Fresh delivery slots, and after the crazy level of self centered hoarding we have seen here that seems fairer.

[Phage]

http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk...a-utilitarian/

The suggestions here to sacrifice some of the population to maintain the economy are morally repugnant. The best quote from the attached paper

"In fact, responses designated as ‘utilitarian’ in the current literature were strongly associated with traits, attitudes and moral judgments (primary psychopathy, rational egoism, and a lenient attitude toward clear moral transgressions) that are diametrically opposed to the impartial concern for the greater good that is at the heart of utilitarian ethics”

[j1979]

One good thing to come out of all of this mess...



Looks like china will ban the dog meat trade

[Zak33]

http://blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk...a-utilitarian/

The suggestions here to sacrifice some of the population to maintain the economy are morally repugnant. The best quote from the attached paper

"In fact, responses designated as ‘utilitarian’ in the current literature were strongly associated with traits, attitudes and moral judgments (primary psychopathy, rational egoism, and a lenient attitude toward clear moral transgressions) that are diametrically opposed to the impartial concern for the greater good that is at the heart of utilitarian ethics”

it is morally repugnant..

uUnless someone comes up with a lot of good science to show that it's the right thing to do, to make a safer healthier future.

then it's not repugnant... it's morally right.

No one can make decisions without someome paying somewhere. Someone always pays the price. Always. There is never a win win. To believe that there is a Win Win and no-one loses is to not be realistic. Sad but true

look all around us. people are losing out as well as winning. people at home safe, but with no income. healthy at the moment...but what if the finances crash and burn? how healthy will they be if they have bad/poor diets and no home, no roof over their head?

someone always pays.

[j1979]

it is morally repugnant..

uUnless someone comes up with a lot of good science to show that it's the right thing to do, to make a safer healthier future.

then it's not repugnant... it's morally right.

No one can make decisions without someome paying somewhere. Someone always pays the price. Always. There is never a win win. To believe that there is a Win Win and no-one loses is to not be realistic. Sad but true

look all around us. people are losing out as well as winning. people at home safe, but with no income. healthy at the moment...but what if the finances crash and burn? how healthy will they be if they have bad/poor diets and no home, no roof over their head?

someone always pays.

Are you talking about the plutocracy? Because them losing 99% of their wealth, is a win win. Other people get a fairer slice of the pie and dont need to struggle all thier lives, the 1% get to learn humility.

[Jonj1611]

I don't believe that is what they are saying at all.

[Jonj1611]

Hoping the lockdown doesn't go on for much longer but believe it could last into May at least :/

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Japanese leaders to push PM to hasten lockdown:
https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/la...075616806.html

TOKYO — Aichi, home to Toyota Motor Corp. in central Japan, has declared its own state of emergency, saying it cannot wait for a slow-moving decision by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s government to add the prefecture to an ongoing emergency declared this week.

Aichi Gov. Hideaki Omura said one-third of about 300 new coronavirus cases in the prefecture have been confirmed in the past week as the infection spreads rapidly in the region, making it the fifth-most infected prefecture in the country.

“The situation is critical,” Omura said. “We decided to do everything we can to protect Aichi residents’ lives and health.”

Omura issued a request to all residents to stay home and work remotely until May 6, when the government-issued state of emergency is to end. Omura, however, did not request closures of non-essential businesses and facilities for now.

His announcement came just as Tokyo’s outspoken governor, Yuriko Koike, was to request closures of non-essential businesses and facilities in the city after agreeing with Abe’s government that had asked her to wait two weeks, apparently to avoid impact on the economy.

Earlier on Friday, leaders of Kyoto, Japan’s ancient capital, urged Abe to add that prefecture to part of the state of emergency to allow them to issue stricter social-distancing measures. Such actions by local leaders are unusual in Japan and come as Abe faces criticism for slow and lax measures.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga told reporters that additional state of emergency declarations in Aichi and Kyoto are not immediately planned.

Japan as of midday Friday had 5,246 confirmed coronavirus cases, as well as 712 from a cruise ship, with 99 deaths.

Italy might extend lockdown to May:

https://time.com/5819001/italy-lockdown-may/

So people who are healthy but self-important can expect to be self isolating and have us run around after them? I believe Amazon have a list of people in this country who are considered vulnerable by the state who get Amazon Fresh delivery slots, and after the crazy level of self centered hoarding we have seen here that seems fairer.

Its more than that - check the stats in post 289. Looking at the number of over 70s,younger people with pre-existing health conditions,live-in carers and multi-generational families,you could easily be looking at between 10~20 million people,need to self-isolate or make significant changes to reduce physical contact in this country,for months longer than certain people.

Also speaking to people I know abroad the US and UK lockdowns are relatively mild compared to Spain for example,or even the Asian subcontinent. The military is being deployed and the police actually have guns.


Edit!!

UK peak is still another two weeks away:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...scientist-says

UK coronavirus peak at least two weeks away, chief scientist says

Patrick Vallance says deaths likely to keep rising for fortnight after ICU situation improves

When UK lockdown ends it will only happen sector by sector:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...plan-for-firms

UK lockdown could end 'with sector-by-sector plan' for firms

Industries like manufacturing could return to normal before entertainment companies, according to Whitehall sources

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Italy passes a morbid milestone:

https://www.france24.com/en/20200409...rus-passes-100

The 100th doctor has now died because of Covid19. 10 doctors died in the UK:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ronavirus.html

The Telegraph made a list of doctors and medical personal who have died so far in the UK:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/0/n...rkers-victims/

The doctors were mostly immigrants. Covid 19 seems to be affected ethnic minorities more in terms of deaths in the US and UK:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/stor...cial-disparity

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/...143303604.html

Third of critically ill COVID-19 UK patients from BME backgrounds

In Spain a week ago it was reported around 14% of medical personal have been affected with the virus.


As I pointed out earlier,with the ONS figures,the official government death tolls have been underrepresented in the UK:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-official-toll

Hundreds of UK care home deaths not added to official coronavirus toll

Exclusive: Industry body estimates up to 1,000 people may have died in care homes so far

UK doctor also highlighting another problem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHfSSlcKuq0



Because of the problems with the virus,at risk people are dying prematurely as they are worried about visiting the hospital due to the fears of getting the virus,and also because the medical system is already straining to take care of it due to the lack of capacity we have.

Edit!!

Here is a snapshot of ONS figures from two weeks ago.



The daily figures which are reported are mostly hospital deaths.

[j1979]

Them Beanz people are doing a home delivery service for.

2 x 4 pack of 415g Baked Beanz in tomato sauce
1 x 4 pack of 400g Cream of Tomato Soup
1 x 4 pack of 400g Spaghetti Hoops

for a tenner! (toast not included)

Delivery (2-3 days) is £3.50 per bundle or free for Blue Light Card holders.

https://heinztohome.co.uk/

[g8ina]

yeah, OK......

[Phage]

Hmmmm - I know you're an admin and all but

"Unless someone comes up with a lot of good science to show that it's the right thing to do, to make a safer healthier future."

Good science to sacrifice some lives for a healthier future ? Very close to Godwin's there. There are spectacularly few situations where that is even a possibility to be considered.

This certainly isn't one of them.

[Phage]

The doctors were mostly immigrants. Covid 19 seems to be affected ethnic minorities more in terms of deaths in the US and UK:
https://www.latimes.com/opinion/stor...cial-disparity
.

Probably reflects the diverse nature of the NHS

[kompukare]

Them Beanz people are doing a home delivery service for.

2 x 4 pack of 415g Baked Beanz in tomato sauce
1 x 4 pack of 400g Cream of Tomato Soup
1 x 4 pack of 400g Spaghetti Hoops

for a tenner! (toast not included)

Delivery (2-3 days) is £3.50 per bundle or free for Blue Light Card holders.

https://heinztohome.co.uk/

I wouldn't have though that in a shortage (or hord-age) that baked beans would be anyone's top priority. On the other hand I, I did eat baked beans twice over the last week as I realised that I had two tins which were best before January.

You'd think toast is far more important though and harder to get without venturing into shops.

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

India has eased restrictions on paracemetomol supplies to a few countries including the UK:
https://www.republicworld.com/world-...-pandemic.html

Acting UK High Commissioner to India Jan Thompson has expressed her gratitude towards Prime Minister Narendra Modi for approving the export of paracetamol to the United Kingdom amid the Coronavirus crisis that has taken the world hostage and has also affected the UK which has suffered closed to 8,000 deaths and over 65,500 infected cases, including infections to its Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Prince Charles..

Edit!!

Antibody tests to be ready soon in the US:
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/09/83063...virus-seasonal

[j1979]

Im glad Boris is getting better, hopefuly he will be fully fit for his resignation speech when the crisis is over.

So we are well over 8k deaths so far, the peak is not in sight. The deaths counted in the official figures so far is apparently those that have died in hospital with a confirmed case of Covid-19. If you die at home, a nursing home it's not recorded in the offical figures, often recorded as pnemonia, or recored as covid but not added to the published figures.

Chris Witty, handcock and Boris, said that they expect the death toll to be around 20k people with the lockdown in place. As the offical figures could be wildly off the mark, some estimates that the real total is as high as 13k, the 20k figure looks like a pipe dream.

We were told from the start masks don't help, either because they wanted to persue herd immunity or they wanted cover there own failure to have supplies stockpiled for the NHS if a pandemic ever hit. In Spain medical supplies were nationallised some weeks ago, stockiles of medical equipment was requisitioned, and at the borders large amounts of stock sent was confiscated.

This govement has sent NHS staff into the front lines without a helmet & boby armour and gave them a wet musket not a semi-auto rilfe. NHS workers have been treated sub human in the name of saving a few quid here and there.

And then we have the privileged that do things like this