* Star Citizen *

[ZaO]

Well it runs very well on my setup so far. I'm also sure I was holding down a solid 60fps @1080p on very high settings. No multiplayer for me yet though. I think that will be much more demanding than free flight and Vanduul swarm modes. Then as other things get added to the game. But so far, it's looking quite well optimised for a pre-alpha. Although the gameplay feels pretty good, the are you get to fly around in is small. So there's not much to go and look at right now. It's a nice little taster of flight mechanics and combat though. Things will get much more exciting for me as the other modules start to come in. Looking forward to doing a bit of exploring and landing planetside

He said "2700k at 5.5 Ghz, 16 Gigs of RAM. All water cooled." which is crazy as I didn't think people could get such a high stable oc on a cpu. Anyway I downloaded it and on the auto detected high preset I get anything from 30-45ish. I can't figure out how to close my ship door, open the hangar door or take off.

That's a crazy overclock haha! Wonder how stable that is... You need to put on the helmet in the hangar and then get into the ships pilot seat! There are only 3 ships you can fly right now as well. If you don't have one of them, then they will loan you the closest equivalent. I have an Aurora LN, which is not flyable. But there was an Aurora MR in my hangar, and I could fly that.

[Ttaskmaster]

Still downloading... I think. Started it at 3am this morning, but am only on a 1.5mb connection.
I checked in for about 2 hours this morning and it just said PLEASE WAIT.

Meanwhile, flew the Hornet and 300i (love that grey colour scheme) on a friend's PC last night.
The Hornet is a complete ASS of a ship. Flipping thing moves like a dead cow!!
"Gates of Heaven my BUTT - You give me a fully loaded Hornet... and I'll show you the gates to the frikkin' Glue Factory, mate!!"

By contrast, the 300i was fantastic - I hit Vanduul Wave 5 without even trying, or knowing what all the keys did!
I own a 300i and Aurora myself, so really happy about that.

I then went away and started reading the manual and all the loooooooooong explanations about how to get a 'Firing Solution'... "Seriously, it'd likely have cost me less to join the RAF and become a fighter pilot in order to learn all this crap".
I do get what CR is trying to do and I really appreciate every inch of it... it's just a bit of a shock to *have* to read a game manual before you can really get stuck in. My brain took some time to wrap itself around the idea, as I haven't really had to do this since the late 1980s!!

So yeah, after many agonising months and even years, the game is starting to show a lot of promise. It will likely take FAR longer to reach full release and have everything all good than people are expecting, but I think this will eventually be very very cool.

[cptwhite_uk]

If it says PLEASE WAIT, the download has finished. Restart the launcher (it's a bit buggy).

In terms of performance I get 45-60 fps using 1080p and High, 45-53 fps using 1440p and Medium, or a solid 60fps using 1600x900 and High. I prefer 1440p medium and the visual fidelity really makes a difference in a game like this - can't really tell much difference between Medium and Very High in terms of perceived quality to be honest. Once you're playing it looks beautiful regardless so prefer high res and fps

[Ttaskmaster]

If it says PLEASE WAIT, the download has finished. Restart the launcher (it's a bit buggy).

I recall reading something about that, but didn't bother trying as I was already kinda late for work, heh heh!!

[ZaO]

what's everyone's thoughts on the mouse controls? people are complaining that it's over powered. it's kinda nice having that bit of free aim with the mouse. but it does give a bit of an advantage over a joystick. it just seems way too easy to fly with the mouse as well. i haven't even bothered with the joystick yet (even though i think it'll be much more fun that way). a game like this should really be inspiring you to use a joystick i think!

[cptwhite_uk]

I'm find using a mouse a frustrating experience to be honest. Not really got the hang of it yet.

[ZaO]

I'm find using a mouse a frustrating experience to be honest. Not really got the hang of it yet.

yeh it's a bit odd. but i'm sorta used to it as i played evochron mercenary for a while. i ended up using a joystick once i'd bought one. but i used the mouse at first. it's just like how it works in star citizen. except there is no free aim range, which makes it a lot harder. i think i will go for the joystick on my next run of arena commander! i can't be bothered to think about which is better. joystick will just be more enjoyable

as for my frame rate. well i actually monitored it properly this time. i was really surprised at how low it was going at times, yet not looking that bad. the cry engine always has been quite good for that for some reason. i'm lowering the settings to "high" though. i want to keep a more consistent frame rate.

i really hope we get another test module this year! but i think we're still in for a long ride yet. can't see the finished game being out until 2016. who knows..

[outwar6010]

Well it runs very well on my setup so far. I'm also sure I was holding down a solid 60fps @1080p on very high settings. No multiplayer for me yet though. I think that will be much more demanding than free flight and Vanduul swarm modes. Then as other things get added to the game. But so far, it's looking quite well optimised for a pre-alpha. Although the gameplay feels pretty good, the are you get to fly around in is small. So there's not much to go and look at right now. It's a nice little taster of flight mechanics and combat though. Things will get much more exciting for me as the other modules start to come in. Looking forward to doing a bit of exploring and landing planetside



That's a crazy overclock haha! Wonder how stable that is... You need to put on the helmet in the hangar and then get into the ships pilot seat! There are only 3 ships you can fly right now as well. If you don't have one of them, then they will loan you the closest equivalent. I have an Aurora LN, which is not flyable. But there was an Aurora MR in my hangar, and I could fly that.

The part where the flight display comes up only happens for me like 20% of the time; I have to keep hitting start and then pressing return to hangar so it reloads me still in the ship. I haven't tried the swarm mode I'm still trying to get the hang of the controls in the practise mode thing.

[outwar6010]

I found a benchmark for the alpha if anyone's interested. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Yak8xNA1Y

[Ttaskmaster]

what's everyone's thoughts on the mouse controls? people are complaining that it's over powered.

what's everyone's thoughts on the mouse controls? people are complaining that it's over powered. it's kinda nice having that bit of free aim with the mouse. but it does give a bit of an advantage over a joystick. it just seems way too easy to fly with the mouse as well. i haven't even bothered with the joystick yet (even though i think it'll be much more fun that way). a game like this should really be inspiring you to use a joystick i think!

The mouse is overpowered... but only compared to the joystick and probably only if you're more used to flying games with M&KB over a HOTAS.
Even then, certain moves are much easier than others, depending on which ship you're flying, which control system you're using *and* whether you have all that FCS/Coupling stuff enabled or not.

So far Waves 1-5 have taken me anything from about 20 to 90 minutes to reach, depending on stuff. An Aurora on joystick is great to start with, but I quickly found myself battling to keep it flying straight, with only the one canon operable. I wasn't even sure all the damage was registering - I could see the Scythe flashing and taking hits, but the damage score wasn't coming up.

Personally, I find the whole Newtonian physics thing a very admirable achievement, but very clunky and counter-productive to gameplay. The learning curve is immense and it's going to take a good few months before I'm a good enough pilot to even play well enough that basic level missions become fun... and that's the key, here - I am playing a game. It should be fun. It is not.
This is a space-sim. I should feel like I'm a ****-hot space ace fighter pilot.
Instead, I feel like a complete Novice playing a complicated Flight-Sim.

IIRC, Elite Frontiers tried this same approach and about 90% of their player base just dropped it. Freelancer went the other way and, while I love it to bits (I still play it online very regularly), it is very Arcadey. Starlancer was far superior in many respects.

SC is almost starting to feel like a game with mechanics designed to justify the Flight-Sim types dropping insane money on Warthogs.

[kalniel]

SC is almost starting to feel like a game with mechanics designed to justify the Flight-Sim types dropping insane money on Warthogs.

The biggest backers with the loudest voices.. it's the inherent danger of a game with community input. Same sort of thing happened at Project Cars. For their evils, publishers did do a good job of looking out for the mass market (which those same hard core types view as a negative).

In a sensible world you wait for a product and buy it if you like it, and not if you don't - so far it's looking like ED will get my money and SC won't.. but this is very early days. Plenty of time for this to be tweaked, and in my experience of game dev, input is one of the things that gets adjusted a LOT in the process, often right up until gold.

[ZaO]

The mouse is overpowered... but only compared to the joystick and probably only if you're more used to flying games with M&KB over a HOTAS.
Even then, certain moves are much easier than others, depending on which ship you're flying, which control system you're using *and* whether you have all that FCS/Coupling stuff enabled or not.

So far Waves 1-5 have taken me anything from about 20 to 90 minutes to reach, depending on stuff. An Aurora on joystick is great to start with, but I quickly found myself battling to keep it flying straight, with only the one canon operable. I wasn't even sure all the damage was registering - I could see the Scythe flashing and taking hits, but the damage score wasn't coming up.

Personally, I find the whole Newtonian physics thing a very admirable achievement, but very clunky and counter-productive to gameplay. The learning curve is immense and it's going to take a good few months before I'm a good enough pilot to even play well enough that basic level missions become fun... and that's the key, here - I am playing a game. It should be fun. It is not.
This is a space-sim. I should feel like I'm a ****-hot space ace fighter pilot.
Instead, I feel like a complete Novice playing a complicated Flight-Sim.

IIRC, Elite Frontiers tried this same approach and about 90% of their player base just dropped it. Freelancer went the other way and, while I love it to bits (I still play it online very regularly), it is very Arcadey. Starlancer was far superior in many respects.

SC is almost starting to feel like a game with mechanics designed to justify the Flight-Sim types dropping insane money on Warthogs.

i don't feel as negative about it as you haha. i think it's very easy to control your ship in sc. maybe too easy. you barely have to counter any momentum when changing direction/going to and from decoupled mode. you pretty much instantly just start moving in the direction you point to. it was much harder to get the hang of in evochron mercenary. and much more rewarding when you got it right. now this "This is a space-sim. I should feel like I'm a ****-hot space ace fighter pilot.", i really don't get. are you joking? if it's a space sim, then why should you feel like an ace pilot on your first go? and as for your opinion on the newtonian physics (aka decoupled mode), that's only because you haven't realised the advantage of it and how to use it. with practice, you will see it's worth

i think you might be over reacting a bit about sc. try and play a game like evochron mercenary which i mentioned. then have a go on arena commander. it will seem so much more simple! it's really pretty straight forward to play in its current state. and you need to be aware of what the goal is with this game. they're going for a lot of details in the mechanics of the game (amongst other things). it was never meant to be a casual game. being a good pilot in this will take practice. that's just how it's gonna be

[kalniel]

i really don't get. are you joking? if it's a space sim, then why should you feel like an ace pilot on your first go?

In previous Roberts games you were playing the role of an ace pilot - there is a sense that that's what you're simulating (the experience of being that pilot), not someone coming to navy boot camp.

Could be that SC is breaking from all the previous wing commander/privateer/*lancer games, but you can't really blame people who bought into it on the expectation of those games for having the assumption that it wouldn't.

[Ttaskmaster]

Plenty of time for this to be tweaked, and in my experience of game dev, input is one of the things that gets adjusted a LOT in the process, often right up until gold.

Ah, could be good, then.
I have to say, I took to the E release far better than the SC one.

it was much harder to get the hang of in evochron mercenary. and much more rewarding when you got it right.

See, I've been playing that recently and I actually find it far easier (albeit much slower) than SC. Those timed races through the virtual tunnel, for example, I could not even imagine making those in a 300i... and the Hornet is like flying a dead cow!

now this "This is a space-sim. I should feel like I'm a ****-hot space ace fighter pilot.", i really don't get. are you joking? if it's a space sim, then why should you feel like an ace pilot on your first go?

Well, if this is THAT much of a space-sim, 900 years into the future, why isn't everything computer controlled in the first place?
Why are we dogfighting up close like Spitfires, when it's far more likely that we'd be calculating firing solutions and engaging from at least a few thousand MSKs away?

and as for your opinion on the newtonian physics (aka decoupled mode), that's only because you haven't realised the advantage of it and how to use it. with practice, you will see it's worth

Like I said, this is just my initial feeling on the game.
I'm re-reading the manual and I'm sure I'll eventually figure out how I'm supposed to fly, but when it takes THAT long just to catch opportune shots at your very first enemy, it doesn't really inspire me to try further.

i think you might be over reacting a bit about sc.

These are just my thoughts based on what they've given me.
I find my ship very slow and sluggish, the view awkward to get right so I can see all the instruments I need, and the NPCs seemingly not governed by the same restrictions I'm finding.
The mouse control for firing, for example - I find it initially very unresponsive, then WAAAAAAAY oversensitive, with only scaled down differences when all the various settings are tweaked. I find the stick far easier to maintain a firing solution with, but the mouse far easier to fly with.

it was never meant to be a casual game. being a good pilot in this will take practice. that's just how it's gonna be

Well apparently, the game is geared up for those already skilled in flight sims, despite Ben Lesnick's instructional videos only covering the stupidly basic stuff ("this is the A key. Press it to roll left. Now this is the D key. Press it to roll right") at a level you'd only expect for someone who has never played a single computer game before...

It is still a game though. I'm not paying for actual flying lessons here, be it the Newtonian physics of realistic space flight or for instruction at Fighter Weapons School (the manuals of which seems to be the main resource for the hardcore lot to start quoting). There has to be enough fun at a basic level to keep players entertained, else it's not a game any more. It's a training course.

In previous Roberts games you were playing the role of an ace pilot - there is a sense that that's what you're simulating (the experience of being that pilot), not someone coming to navy boot camp.

Not so much in Starlancer... You did start out as a Rookie in the 45th Volunteers, IIRC?
Freelancer was almost the same.

Could be that SC is breaking from all the previous wing commander/privateer/*lancer games, but you can't really blame people who bought into it on the expectation of those games for having the assumption that it wouldn't.

I'm more surprised at how SC kept claiming it was going to be unlike any other game, that there would not really be any comparison, etc etc, yet people are already naming games both current and from years ago that have the same features!

[ZaO]

See, I've been playing that recently and I actually find it far easier (albeit much slower) than SC. Those timed races through the virtual tunnel, for example, I could not even imagine making those in a 300i... and the Hornet is like flying a dead cow!

That's interesting. I'm definitely better with the joystick on Evochron than SC. But that might change once I can map the joystick the way I want. But the mouse is way easier on SC. I still think Evochron is harder in the way that you have much more momentum from your previous direction when you try to change course. In SC it's so easy to just go straight to where you're pointing, at will. At least in the Aurora anyway. I suppose it's not all that much to go on.

Well, if this is THAT much of a space-sim, 900 years into the future, why isn't everything computer controlled in the first place?
Why are we dogfighting up close like Spitfires, when it's far more likely that we'd be calculating firing solutions and engaging from at least a few thousand MSKs away?

Well you quoted it as a space sim, then said you should feel like an ace pilot. That's what confused me haha..

Well apparently, the game is geared up for those already skilled in flight sims, despite Ben Lesnick's instructional videos only covering the stupidly basic stuff ("this is the A key. Press it to roll left. Now this is the D key. Press it to roll right") at a level you'd only expect for someone who has never played a single computer game before...

Hmm. Myabe. I don't play flight sims myself. But I don't find it that hard to get to grips with stuff like this. I guess we all have our own standards. But so far this doesn't strike me as a game that's going to take a lot of practice to be good enough at it to enjoy it. But I'm sure you'll need lots of practice to be one of the better players - as with any game!

The tutorials weren't that great either. I agree. At no point have I seen them go into much detail about the Newtonian physics. I think a lot of people don't know what the hell is going on with that! The only reason I didn't get puzzled by it straight away was because I'd previously played Evochron.

It is still a game though. I'm not paying for actual flying lessons here, be it the Newtonian physics of realistic space flight or for instruction at Fighter Weapons School (the manuals of which seems to be the main resource for the hardcore lot to start quoting). There has to be enough fun at a basic level to keep players entertained, else it's not a game any more. It's a training course.

I agree with that too. There is a point where games start to become way too serious for their own good. Just as a thing with games in general, I tend to favour stuff that goes more for realism. But it's still a game at the end of the day. There needs to be a significant amount of focus on having a fun experience! But again, I'm not scared of SC being way too serious for its own good. Maybe I should be..

[Ttaskmaster]

That's interesting. I'm definitely better with the joystick on Evochron than SC.

I also prefer flying helicopters to planes. Maybe my mind is funny?

In SC it's so easy to just go straight to where you're pointing, at will. At least in the Aurora anyway. I suppose it's not all that much to go on.

Yeah, as people say, it's early days. I'm still gonna stick with it and give it a good effort.
It's just the little things, like how I'll line up for a shot, let the target lead nicely into the crosshair... and then the ship will catch up with my slight movement and judder sideways (I know I'm not hitting/being hit by anything at this point) and I never quite reach the firing solution... yet with joystick, it's effortless.
Then again, my friend was showing me how hard it is to fly stick in E... whereupon I took over and thrashed the NPCs to pieces!

Well you quoted it as a space sim, then said you should feel like an ace pilot. That's what confused me haha..

Ace *space* fighter pilot, specifically.
This is an expensive piece of hardware - I can't believe the UEE would just let me go fly it without either basic instruction (forthcoming in Sqn 42, I assume), or knowing I have the enough basic ability to fly it safe while bumming around in space...

But I'm sure you'll need lots of practice to be one of the better players - as with any game!

So long as I can last far longer than just a couple of minutes without getting blown to pieces by every TD&H that comes my way, I'll be happy. It took me months just to learn what was going on in Freelancer!!

At no point have I seen them go into much detail about the Newtonian physics.

I'll probably find a YouTube vid that explains things better.

Just as a thing with games in general, I tend to favour stuff that goes more for realism. But it's still a game at the end of the day. There needs to be a significant amount of focus on having a fun experience! But again, I'm not scared of SC being way too serious for its own good. Maybe I should be..

I think part of the problem is the seriousness of the players, rather than the games - Based on their 'woots' and victorious rants of how awesome they are, too many think ganking lil' ol' me qualifies them as bona fide veteran SAS troopers, or something!!