Christians - A Penny For Your Thoughts.

[Kezzer]

Thanks for your input, it really helps.

As Kezzer says, you have to accept Jesus. That means millions of people around the world wont because they follow the wrong system.

In contrast to your regular Christians that would be the typical view. It depends on what wrong systems you're talking about.

[Kezzer]

Is that how god teaches us to solve our problems, or is it do as i say not as i do?

He teaches in many ways, from suffering to perseverance. Most people don't understand the concept because they don't follow it though. As a physical example, in order to lose weight you have to restrict yourself from foods and perhaps go to the gym a lot. You benefit from this because you lose the weight and become healthier, but you first have to face many hardships such as cutting out foods you like, and waiting a long time for the weight to actually come off you. This can be taken to a spiritual level in many ways.

One last thing - who made god?

Well that just takes us back to square one doesn't it there's no possible way to answer that, scientifically or religiously.

[MadduckUK]

Thanks for your input, it really helps.

ok then, how about: Your life-view is pathetic, and i would put the kind of unsubstanciated propoganda you are spreading in the same funny farm as people that live there life based around episodes of star trek

[joshwa]

ok then, how about: Your life-view is pathetic, and i would put the kind of unsubstanciated propoganda you are spreading in the same funny farm as people that live there life based around episodes of star trek

Seems a bit harsh. Why not let Kezzer choose how he wants to live life without saying it's pathetic?

It's simply a choice how he wants to live his life. He's not attacking you for the way you are living your life?

[Zak33]

so...how do we know which religion is the right one? I mean, Muslim faith, Judaism (sp?) and Christianity all have different views... but is there anyway of telling who is lying/misguided.

[MadduckUK]

he says that his beliefs give him special entitlements above "the ordinary masses". id call this dillusional. i really dont care about what happens when you die, but to suggest superiority over other based on purely on a belief? no i think i was firm but fair

[Kezzer]

ok then, how about: Your life-view is pathetic, and i would put the kind of unsubstanciated propoganda you are spreading in the same funny farm as people that live there life based around episodes of star trek

I'm not sure where the provocation for such a reply came from, but I do apologise if I've caused any grief for you.

so...how do we know which religion is the right one? I mean, Muslim faith, Judaism (sp?) and Christianity all have different views... but is there anyway of telling who is lying/misguided.

That all comes back down to faith. It is possible of being able to tell that you're being lied to and misguided, to do this you just read through the bible and it actually tells you the types of people who are lying and misguiding you whether it's someone who claims themselves to be better than others and many other things. I'd recommend reading the book of 2 Peter (I think it's in there anyway).

[Kezzer]

he says that his beliefs give him special entitlements above "the ordinary masses". id call this dillusional. i really dont care about what happens when you die, but to suggest superiority over other based on purely on a belief? no i think i was firm but fair

May I ask where I stated that my beliefs give me special entitlements? If I have done this, then I apologise, that was not my intention. I'm not sure where I said I had any superiority, in fact, the teachings of the bible tell me to do the exact opposite. So if you could point out where I did this then I will learn from my ways.

[MadduckUK]

the quote i rolled my eyes at, the one you were unhappy with.

it wasnt long ago

[kalniel]

No my premise is that it does not matter if you are an atheist, you can still get into heaven.

Ok thanks for explaining. For a minute there I thought you were saying:

the Atheists/scientists [who] dont believe in creationism will not go to heaven

. Which as a scientist who does not believe in creationism I know isn't true.

As Kezzer says, you have to accept Jesus. That means millions of people around the world wont because they follow the wrong system.

In general, yes, though I'm not convinced it's as absolute as you make out - opinion widely varies on this one, but as mentioned before I'm fond of the Aslan/Tash analogy. If you do the right thing, but in a different name just because you didn't know better, then you're still doing the right thing and it will be considered to have been done in the right name. I don't think it's 100% dependant on what you do in this life either - maybe there's some kind of choice at the end as well. Hard to explain and this kind of thing is only written about in very coded ways. Best recommendation I have is to read The Last Battle (last book in Narnia series) as a helpful allegory.

In the same way there is some evidence for the earth being older than 6000 years?

Absolutely - I believe the earth is older than 6000 years old.

That does not really answer the question, just sounds like a politicians response. If god made the animals then, basically you are saying that he made a right old balls up so killed them all? How were the animals living that that was so wrong? Did god even give them a concept of right and wrong?

I don't believe animals have consciences or concepts of right or wrong (ethically). We are charged with looking after them responsibly, but ultimately they're here for us I don't know how you can have a problem with God killing 'innocent' animals when humans have been killing 'innocent' animals since they learned to hunt. God didn't make the balls up, humans did.

Is that how god teaches us to solve our problems, or is it do as i say not as i do?

Um, no, the whole thing is showing how *not* to solve a problem, because it didn't work.

Just seems like a strange way to solve a problem for someone like god. I guess a bad workman always blames his tools

*shrugs* he kept giving us choice.

One last thing - who made god?

No-one. He doesn't need to be made.

so...how do we know which religion is the right one? I mean, Muslim faith, Judaism (sp?) and Christianity all have different views... but is there anyway of telling who is lying/misguided.

Well those three are interesting because they all share the same historical roots. Christianity takes Judaism and says 'look, that was how it used to be, but the person you were waiting for has arrived' Judaism says 'nah, you had a prophet but he wasn't who we were waiting for, we're still waiting' and Islam says 'the person you were waiting for sort of arrived but he's just a prophet and we've got another prophet (p.b.u.h.) who's more important' (or something like that, I'm not too up on Islam).

As for who's right.. well you can't really prove it historically - the historical facts pretty much back up the things that they all have in common, not the differences. It becomes a question of opinion, IMO, and your own judgement about whether you believe a) what Jesus said is true, b) what Mohammed (p.b.u.h.) said is true. If you believe neither is true but believe the earlier writing, then Judaism is the way for you. Personally, what Jesus said seems to fit most with what I understand about the writings before him. So for me I believe him the most.

[Kezzer]

the quote i rolled my eyes at, the one you were unhappy with.

it wasnt long ago

So could you tell me where I stated that my beliefs give me special entitlements? I was being sarcastic, and I would've probably said that no matter what thread it was in. I apologise for any offense I've caused, but I don't think it portrayed any kind of superiority over anyone and if you've taken it that way then I think you're just looking for reasons to be offense towards me perhaps?

[MadduckUK]

Because you have to accept Jesus as your saviour in order to get into heaven.

here is the original quote, i think thats pretty black and white.

Thanks for your input, it really helps.

and heres your reply to the " " seem to be taking it rather more seriously than a purely sarcastic comment eh?

[Kezzer]

I'm sorry I'm still not seeing any correlation between my comments and the assumption that I consider myself superior to anyone else. I'm not sure where you're taking this Madduck and why you've falsely accused me of something.

[TeePee]

As an aside I'd love to know how someone thinks the founding fathers of america have made the world a better place

On that note, you should know the founding fathers actually did a fantastic job. The problem is that successive US governments have pretty much thrown out the constitution as written with the idea of making things 'better'. If they'd go back to it, with minimal government (this is what they fought the civil war over, after all) the US would be a lot better off.

[kalniel]

here is the original quote, i think thats pretty black and white.

I can't see any notion of superiority there - anyone and everyone is equally entitled to accept forgiveness.

[kalniel]

On that note, you should know the founding fathers actually did a fantastic job. The problem is that successive US governments have pretty much thrown out the constitution as written with the idea of making things 'better'. If they'd go back to it, with minimal government (this is what they fought the civil war over, after all) the US would be a lot better off.

Cool - I know nothing about it. But asking the question 'if they hadn't done it would america be like it was today?' is always tempting