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Thread: Christians - A Penny For Your Thoughts.

  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stewart View Post
    A baby has no concept of evil, good, love, hate, or very much at all really.
    You missed my point entirely. A baby is born without knowledge of evil. As you say, it has no knowledge of good either. However, as it develops its intellect / appreciation of the world, there is NO requirement to know about evil in order to appreciate what is good.

    If you shower that baby with love, it will respond to that love. It will flourish. If the baby was able to grow to adulthood without seeing any jealousy, hate, envy, pride etc, would it be flawed itself? Would it have to know about such negatives in order to be a 'good' person?

    not at all. Love / goodness is sufficient on its own.

    There are many Gods worshiped by peoples, your God isn't a special case. You believe as blindly in one specific set of absurd claims, as a Hindu does in theirs. Maybe it’s not your God I need to accept to be saved, but Ganesha, or Maya, or Ram, or Shiva, or Vishnu.
    well, you're wrong. Christianity is a special case.

    1) it's the only religion that is not about man's pursuit of the divine, but instead about God in pursuit of man

    2) it's the only religion that has a leader that claimed to be God himself.

    3) it's the only religion that offers free redemption from sin

    4) it's essential focus is love. The other religions are NOT about that, other than Judaism insofar as it shares a common Bible with Christianity.

    5) it's the only religion where the deity himself subjects himself to the whims of His creation, out of love for His creation.

    Hindus have faith in their Gods, as you have faith in yours. Is the love you show your God any different to theirs?
    as above, the essential issue is the love of God to His creation, not the other way around.

    You have accepted the Christian God into your life, well done. You've bought a lottery ticket; maybe you picked the right one, maybe not. You have faith that your way is the right way; Muslims have faith, Hindus have faith, all religious people have faith.
    we all have faith, but we are not all in the same boat. I personally do NOT know of any adult Christian, ie someone who has accepted Christ consciously into their heart, who did so purely out of faith. None. Nudder.

    Many of you, especially the atheists, assume Christians live in blind hope that what they believe to be true, is true. That we have leapt blindly into a void.

    Well, that is mistaken. As I've said ad nauseam in other threads, there is a relationship. There is 2-way communication. There is solid, tangible evidence for the individual to substantiate the relationship.

    Of course, a non-believer can casually dismiss such claims, but that does not make the non-believer right. The non-believer is ASSUMING.

    Now, as your God is real and all these other Gods are not (obviously...) you can speak to your God, he can speak to you, you can find strength in him, etc. When you claim these things you are just telling it like it is, but when people of other faiths claim the same, they are deluded?
    Do they really claim the same? really? Especially, do they know the forgiveness of their sin? Have they felt the weight lift? Hmmm..............

    To simply believe that one's sin is forgiven does not MAKE one forgiven. I could believe my brother has forgiven me for throwing a brick at his head - that does not bring me peace in my heart that I am forgiven. Only his act of forgiveness does.

    What’s you thoughts on deeply religious peoples of other faiths, and their relationships with their Gods? Do you see it as some sort of mass delusion? Or is their faith blind and they are just believing what they have been told is the truth? Brainwashed, if you like.
    I believe that they are sincere.
    I do not believe their sins are forgiven, and nor do they (IME) claim that either.

    Remember, other faiths are about people pursuing the divine / absolution / meaning. What they choose to believe is up to them. Many people believed the earth was flat for thousands of years; that did not make them right.

    As to who is speaking to them, when they claim to 'hear' from their god/s, I will make no assertions.

  2. #482
    Senior Member Kezzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuddam View Post
    2) it's the only religion that has a leader that claimed to be God himself.
    If you're referring to Jesus then you're wrong. He never once stated in any of the gospels that he was God.

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    But Jesus, as part of the Trinity, is God is he not?

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezzer View Post
    If you're referring to Jesus then you're wrong. He never once stated in any of the gospels that he was God.
    For a start:

    John 14:9
    Jesus replied, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?

    John 14:11
    Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do.

  5. #485
    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
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    Well, that's the view taken by traditional churches that subscribe to the Nicene Creed. However, there are some branches of Christianity that don't subscribe to the idea of the Trinity.

  6. #486
    Senior Member Kezzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fuddam View Post
    For a start:

    John 14:9
    Jesus replied, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?

    John 14:11
    Just believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me. Or at least believe because of the work you have seen me do.
    But never does he explicitly say "I am the Father" or "I am God". In fact, when he was asked if he was God he just said "you said it" as opposed to "I am God". Jesus states the only way to get to God is through him because he is the heavenly body on earth, not because he is God himself. It depends on your view of it but the Bible does not explicitly state that Jesus is God.

  7. #487
    Hexus.Jet TeePee's Avatar
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    I'm sure you can find a bit of scripture which says both, and pick and choose the part which suits what you want to say...

    I guess fuddam can use his devine intervention, and Kezzer can use his, and then we'll see who's schwartz is bigger...

  8. #488
    Senior Member Kezzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeePee View Post
    I'm sure you can find a bit of scripture which says both, and pick and choose the part which suits what you want to say...

    I guess fuddam can use his devine intervention, and Kezzer can use his, and then we'll see who's schwartz is bigger...
    Naturally overridden by atheism, or should I call it "egosticism"?

  9. #489
    Will work for beer... nichomach's Avatar
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    MINE!

    Although I'm (as I said) an Anglican and consequently go for the God-in-Three-Persons thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezzer View Post
    Naturally overridden by atheism, or should I call it "egosticism"?
    What's "egosticism" then?

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    Quote Originally Posted by nichomach View Post


    MINE!
    rofl! May the Scwartz be with you nicomach - always!

  12. #492
    Senior Member Kezzer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akira View Post
    What's "egosticism" then?
    A term I just made up portraying our egos as individuals to express our own personal feelings on this matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kezzer View Post
    A term I just made up portraying our egos as individuals to express our own personal feelings on this matter.
    Sadly that's what the good old ego does, when unfettered. I suppose we're supposed to couple this objectivity, evidence etc. in order to make our way through philosophical minefields such as this in order to arrive at some kind of truth.

  14. #494
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    Didn't manage to edit my post in time, but here goes anyway:

    John 1
    1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning.
    3Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4In him was life, and that life was the light of men.

  15. #495
    Senior Member Kezzer's Avatar
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    Ah, this would clear up some confusion around the Trinity actually for me. Thanks for the scriptures fuddam, even though I've read them before I don't think I ever took those particular ones into consideration

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    The term Holy Trinity seems to have been invented by the Catholic Church.

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