So you are happy to base your concept of the increase/decrease of criminal activity on your own viewpoint, and ignore the office of national statistics?Originally Posted by Big_Al
Can you answer my question: Do you think the police force lie about the number of arrests/cautions/warrants etc that they serve?
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
What have test results got to do with drug testing of kids? I don't think all kids being tested positive to be expelled, that will be the end of this country!
I agree with that. Testing should only occur on those who display effects or are found with drugs about their person. But why the need for this whole post if you're for testing?
So you openly admit to smoking giving you paranoia? And you want to give kids more opportunity to smoke it by not controlling it at the place they are most influenced by other kids? 'Go on, just have a toke! It won't hurt you' 'Go on' 'Go on'
It might have got him put off drugs and therefore could have saved his education? Could it not?
So you'd be happy to find out after your kid's a bum on the street that he'd taken drugs though his schooling life and that's where it'd got him? How else are they supposed to find out kids that take drugs? What kind of a parent would not want to know if they're kids are doing drugs.....Are they **** mate. I'm actually less scared of needles than anyone I know, but you're still not going to stick one in me (or my kids, should I have any) without a good reason....and random testing is not a good reason, I'm afraid.
Rich :¬)
Can anyone who is for this idea explain what you think we should do to kids who have been shown to be taking drugs? I'm curious...
I was under the impression that you cannot be arrested either for being under the influence of illegal drugs, or for someone proving that you had taken illegal drugs in the past. Do you think this should not apply to children? Why?
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
Yes, most statistics are made up anyway. If I see that it isn't on the decrease and they say it is... I know who I'm gonna believe! My eyes!
Are you gonna continue basing your arguement on the views of the lying bastards at No. 10? If so, I have no further discussion about this with you.
That has nothing to do with this post IMO. If so, please tell me it's relevance...
big_Al, if you cant see the connection between the two points:
Whether the statistics we receive are reliable or not
and
Whether the police lie about the number of arrests they make
then I cant help you mate. I'd say you are being purposefully obstructive.
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
How about you explain how the hell people are meant to stop their kids from becoming druggies if we don't put some sort of control over this, huh?
Er, what does the office of national statistics have to do with number 10?
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
Erm, I dont know, how about informed and responsible parenting?
I kind of think kids appreciate that as opposed to growing up in some Orwellian police state.
"All our beliefs are being challenged now, and rightfully so, they're stupid." - Bill Hicks
It's not a case of whether I see a connection or not, it's a case of seeing what I believe. I don't know if the number of arrests the police make are truthfully recorded, do you? To be honest, I have little faith in the police and in the government.
I don't believe in ghosts coz I can't see them, yet they are well documented! I don't believe in god coz I can't see him/her/it, yet he/she/it's well documented. Why should I and, many others, believe the BS these people spout about 'statistics' coz I can't see it!
Right, so what does happen to them then? What's your idea? Tony Blair didn't bother to go so far as to actually tell us what the point of all this is.
Right, well testing only those who you have reasonable grounds to suspect use drugs is not random testing at all, it's targeted testing. Now random testing IMO is always bad, targeted testing could be O.K. The problem with that system is that without extremely rigorous guidlines and external supervision all the way up the chain, a system of testing could very easily be abused.I agree with that. Testing should only occur on those who display effects or are found with drugs about their person. But why the need for this whole post if you're for testing?
Yes, sure it did, but only while I was stoned, it wore off with the effects of the drug. I only smoked sporadically.So you openly admit to smoking giving you paranoia?
Well, there are two points to make here. One is that I disagree entirely with any form of prohibition, and believe that people should be allowed to do whatever they like as long as it harms no-one else, subject to them being of a suitable age. I would say a suitable age is probably 16 or 17, so post compulsory education.And you want to give kids more opportunity to smoke it by not controlling it at the place they are most influenced by other kids? 'Go on, just have a toke! It won't hurt you' 'Go on' 'Go on'
Second point OTOH is that I don't recall saying that I want to give more opportunity to smoke drugs at school. I am merely saying that random testing will be worse than useless. I believe it will alienate pupils whether they take drugs or not, and it will discourage those people most in need of a good education and a strong support network at school from attending. The focus should be on improving drug education and pastoral care at schools, not on threatening kids with random tests.
No, it wouldn't have put him off in the least. His attitude, especially as a rebelious 15 year old, would have been "**** you then".It might have got him put off drugs and therefore could have saved his education? Could it not?
Um, by talking to them? By taking even the slightest interest in their lives? If I have kids, I really won't be bothered if they do what I did- I can't be without being a hypocrite. I only hope I can dissuade them from smoking, but I'm not going to lie about it, I'll say that I enjoyed it while I did it, but that I wish I'd never started because giving up is so hard and so frustrating.So you'd be happy to find out after your kid's a bum on the street that he'd taken drugs though his schooling life and that's where it'd got him? How else are they supposed to find out kids that take drugs?
If I had started taking drugs (or drinking) to the extent that it was adversely affecting my schooling or my wellbeing, my Mum would have spotted it and done something about it. I'm pretty confident that I could spot it in my kids.
I know you've had bad experiences seeing your friends have hard times because of drugs Al, and I'm sorry about that, and sympathetic. You started a thread not so long ago about how you were drinking JD and Coke by the pint, and you don't seem to see any problem with alcohol being freely available. My life experience is different; no-one close to me has been addicted to drugs, but I've seen one of my teachers (a man who was a friend of my mother's) drink himself to death, and my best friend had to leave university because he was on a bottle of vodka a day and unded up almost completely unable to function- happily he's over it now, although he's still a heavy drinker. I would bet that more kids get the educations and their lives adversely affected by alcohol than drugs, but have you ever heard of a scheme to breathalise kids?
To sum up: it's not that I want to encourage schoolkids to take drugs, quite the opposite. It's that I totally hate this irrational focus on drugs just because some archaic laws say they're illegal. The government should get its priorities straight if it wants to improve the lives of young people in this country, rather than waste money on crowd pleasing irrelevances.
Rich :¬)
Last edited by Rave; 23-02-2004 at 11:33 PM. Reason: tidy up formatting
paranoia can be stopped. i had it really badly a while back now, and i just stopped for 2 months. after that, i had 1 spliff, got a wicked amazing high and feeling, and the para aint come back yet. its all about being sensible with it.
if war is the answer, then we are asking the wrong question
2 things i hate the most - xenophobia and the french
"chuffing"
i think they should bring in daily mail testing!!
anyone found to be holding thoughts over 60% compatible with Daily mail editorials should be expelled from the country... actually thats unfair on the rest of the world.. send them to mars alongside Dubya!
"The less you eat, drink and buy books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorise, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save – the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor rust will devour – your capital. The less you are, the less you express your own life, the more you have, the greater is your alienated life, the greater is the store of your estranged being." Karl Marx
haha, quality! that Mel summat-or-other bint out the Daily Fascist, ahem, Mail chats a load of crap about anti-cannabis, ignores any positive evidence and churns out propaghanda, read by mostly middle to upper class britons, who hold a lot of political power. bit of a bugger aint it...
if war is the answer, then we are asking the wrong question
2 things i hate the most - xenophobia and the french
"chuffing"
don't forget working class people who really want to be middle class, there the worst kind!
"The less you eat, drink and buy books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorise, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save – the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor rust will devour – your capital. The less you are, the less you express your own life, the more you have, the greater is your alienated life, the greater is the store of your estranged being." Karl Marx
"we am considerably richer than yow!"
if war is the answer, then we are asking the wrong question
2 things i hate the most - xenophobia and the french
"chuffing"
maybe so dear but ive been a member of the local golf club for 7 years and am good friends with the chairman what what what
"The less you eat, drink and buy books; the less you go to the theatre, the dance hall, the public house; the less you think, love, theorise, sing, paint, fence, etc., the more you save – the greater becomes your treasure which neither moths nor rust will devour – your capital. The less you are, the less you express your own life, the more you have, the greater is your alienated life, the greater is the store of your estranged being." Karl Marx
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