Pro-Fox Hunting lobby

[Flibb]

I have used just about every method under the sun for controlling fox numbers on farms around here (excluding gas/poision) and have to say fox shotting is

1) Difficult, yep you see them all over the roads but thats usually cubs not adults. When they wise up shooting them takes skill.
2) Time consuming. Fancy sitting up all night looking for foxes?
3) Costly. How much you gonna pay me for this service?
4) Dangerous. That kid that got shot the other day. Easilly happens when your shooting at 100yards at night using lamps. Ive lamped the edge of woods had a contact got closer to find its some idiots out walking the dog or having a shag. Scares the **** out of you.

Another method of shooting foxes is to drive them from the woods, this comonly uses dogs and I would never do this with a team I hadnt worked with before. I know several people who have been injured doing this, its very very dangerous as your basically moving towards a bunch of blokes with shotguns loaded with heavy shot.

Somebody asked how will fox numbers be controlled probably by snare and gas.

As to my knowledge of pest control Ive been doing it for 18 years, graduated from a Environmental science (conservation managment) HND. Currently working in a different industry due to absolutely crap pay, but still do work on farms to help friends out.

[RVF500]

The government should have the courage of its convictions, or it should STFU. The attempt to ban hunting is nothing but stupid class war idiocy, and I hate them for it.

After reading a number of articles in various papers the day after the 'vote' it was reported in a few that labour members had actually admitted that this was more about revenge for the miners strike than any compasion for a verminous dog that just happens to look cute. Despite being verminous. They are also naturally destructive and carriers of disease (perhaps flibb can expand on that as he has experience of the industry)

I personally don't like hunting but I don't believe that yet another industry be shut down in an already depressed area. Namely rural districts. Certainly not on the real grounds for this vote. Most of the people that will suffer will be working class people. Same as if cigarettes are banned and the factories closed down. Many of these people have low paid jobs that include a tithe home. Lost job = lost home. Nice to know so many people support homelessness. No one seems to give a toss about the packs of hounds that will be destroyed. Imagine Battersea dogs home suddenly getting between 70 and 150 dogs needing new homes. That's just one pack. They couldn't support it nor could any other animal shelter. Also,try and keep a foxhound as a pet. Like wolves, they are pack animals and rarely survive outside of a pack. Perhaps those most vocal in support of the ban would like the job of destroying the dogs? More likely they will wash their hands of that and pat themselves on the back for getting one over on the 'toffs'.

Any one here tried to shoot a wild animal before? Even if it is just a rat? If so yo will know that you doin't just point and shoot and the thing falls down dead. Nice and clean. Firstly you have to hit it. Animals don't let you get up nice and close. They sod off as soon as they sense you are about. It takes skill to hit a stationary target let alone one running and jinking. You have to see it in the fisrt place. They don't tend to advertise. Once you actually hit it you have to kill it outright. Not quite as easy as it seems. A deer for example has an extrmely tough constitution. Definitely tougher that a human and a human can take a hit from high powered modern weapons and survive. Difference is we can get medical attention wounds. The animal will eventually be killed by infection such as gangrene. Very humane. So the almost flippant 'oh just shoot them' isn't much of an argument either.

How about a bit of perspective. We have a significant international terrorist threat, pensions are an absolute mess, going into an NHS ward is a life threatening endeavour, public transport is falling apart at the seams. Violent crime is on the increase, hosing is a nightmare. Yet the government is more intent on banning a bunch of muppets in red coats from chasing down vermin to get a bit of feelgood back about a strike that took place 20 years ago. Moreover, they are prepared to use an act to ramrod it onto the statute books that all but circumvents the democratic process.

For government read Politburo.

[chriscom]

On a more serious note, how do people think that fox levels will be controlled now, given that hunting with dogs was the main method of fox control? I'm completely in agreement with the ban, but it does present something of a dilemma...

Fox hunts kill between 21,000 and 25,000 foxes a year, this remains a rather insignificant 6% of total fox mortality.

[Richie]

So why should they be able to keep an industry that the majority of people in the country dont want?

Actally, the majority of ppl (59%) are either not fussed about it going or want to keep it. The government are not listening to the ppl on this issue, they are pushing it thru regardless of the fact the MINORITY want it banned.


This has been discussed to death on the OcUK forums and another POV put across quite well by someone else -

For all those ppl AGAINST fox hunting, do you eat meat ??

If so, do you realise that the treatment of animals bred for meat slaughter is quite horrific and not just at the slaughterhouse stage either but throughout the life of the animal....

The main argument that this is ok stems from the "they are killed for food, not fun" area but seeing as we do not NEED to eat meat to survive then why do we ?? Because we LIKE it and enjoy it therefore the killing is not for survival but for fun.

So for thos against fox hunting but that enjoy a good bacon buttie or steak, does this smack of hypocrisy ??

[G4Z]

Well I disagree with you there mate.

I am an omnivore, and as such my diet consists of meat and veg. This is a legacy of our evolution, and yes I could live without meat but I dont think I would be quite as healthy (despite what many vegetarians would try to have me belive). I think there is a big difference in killing for food and killing for fun, now I also dont agree with battery farming and where possible I (well I say I, but I let my girlfriend do most of it) buy meat from the butcher rather than the supermarket (where I assume its more likely to be battery farmed) and I dont eat eggs either. now Im not sure where the meat comes from in all honesty from either place, but I would say it IS a necesary thing to kill animals for meat, and whilst i might not agree with the way its being done that isnt going to stop me eating meat. If they were cooking these foxes on a barbeque I might be inclined to go into the not bothered catagory, but they dont do they?

As for the majority statement, I think its fair to say that More people want to ban fox hunting than want to keep it whilst the majority probably dont care wither way, wouldnt you agree?

[Richie]

You aint disagreeing with me. If you read what i wrote you will see its a POV from another forum that I threw in there.


The fact they are trying to put forward is that you DONT need to eat meat these days regardless of what you say but you do eat meat because you enjoy it which can be construed as "fun" as there is enojoyment there.


Sorry but there is far better and more complee arguments here - http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...eadid=17288826

[dozer]

i thought hunts were just to give upperclass ******s something to do on the weekend, intersting to read about all the issues

[Clingy]

Wow, to think that as a Vegetarian for 20 years I must be terribly malnurished . The evolved Humans amongst us dont need meat. Meat is also a much less efficient method of producing food and a recent article I read showed that in 15 years or so the only way to feed the world will be through growing rather than rearing food.

Now come on, you didnt really believe that 59% carp surely? The BBC pole showed 83% in favour of a ban?

[G4Z]

Richie,

Its an interesting point of view but one that I would dismiss.

I think its fair to say that you could live just eating vegetables, I am of the school of thought that we have evolved to eat meat and therefore we should. I dont see anything cruel in killing animals for food at all, every animal dos its best to survive, it just seems that humans have been the most sucessful at it. The reason we evolved such huge brains (relativley speaking, we do have the Vauls of this world to contend with...) is because our ancient ancestors switched from a vegetarian diet to an omnivore diet (obviously you need a bigger brain to catch your meat). I dont see why I should go against my very nature and eat veggie.

I just dont think its on the same level as using dogs to chase an animal down and tear it apart. It is simply not the same thing.

[Rave]

I think its fair to say that you could live just eating vegetables, I am of the school of thought that we have evolved to eat meat and therefore we should. I dont see anything cruel in killing animals for food at all,

The cruelty is in the way we keep them in factory farms and battery cages, not in killing them per se.

The reason we evolved such huge brains (relativley speaking, we do have the Vauls of this world to contend with...) is because our ancient ancestors switched from a vegetarian diet to an omnivore diet (obviously you need a bigger brain to catch your meat).

Why is this obvious? Do you have any scientific evidence to support this theory?

A caveman or whatever probably did need meat to supplement a meagre diet of fruits and seeds with some good protein. In this day and age when foods like nuts, fresh vegetables, grains, quorn etc. can provide all the protein we need, meat is entirely optional. There's really no justification for keeping animals in cruel and unnatural conditions just so that we can eat tastier food.

Having said that, I don't specifically avoid farmed meat when I'm buying, even though I know that I should. I don't support a ban on hunting though, so although I contribute to animal cruelty, I'm not a hypocrite.

Rich :¬)

[Richie]

The cruelty is in the way we keep them in factory farms and battery cages, not in killing them per se.

The killing is very much an issue.

They are electro-shocked to render them unconscious before their throats cut to kill them. This is classed as human, however a great percentage of these animlas do not receive enough of a shock to do this so they are continually shocked till its either done or, in some cases, they are sluaghtered while completely concious....

This is after they have travelled miles in a very cramped lorry with little food, water or fresh air. Before this, the manner in which they are raised is sometimes questionable.

[Rave]

The killing is very much an issue.

They are electro-shocked to render them unconscious before their throats cut to kill them. This is classed as human, however a great percentage of these animlas do not receive enough of a shock to do this so they are continually shocked till its either done or, in some cases, they are sluaghtered while completely concious....

This is after they have travelled miles in a very cramped lorry with little food, water or fresh air. Before this, the manner in which they are raised is sometimes questionable.

That's not really what I meant TBH. Of course killing them humanely is as important as rearing them humanely, but I don't believe killing animals for food is inherently wrong.

Blame DEFRA (the Department for the Elimination of Farming and Rural Affairs) for them having to travel miles in cramped lorries- if they hadn't shut down loads of small local abbatoirs for a variety of stupid reasons that wouldn't be necessary.

Rich :¬)

[G4Z]

Well, Rave

I agree with you that its not the killing thats the issue with meat production.


And you do like to make me work dont you,

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/cavemen...e2.shtml#Brain food



That link there describes the scentificaly proven link between us eating meat and then developing large brains. (was also in a BBC documentary called Human instinct)


"Brain food
Because meat is rich in calories and nutrients, easy-to-digest food, early Homo lost the need for big intestines like apes and earlier hominids had. This freed up energy for use by other organs. This surplus of energy seems to have been diverted to one organ in particular: the brain.

But scavenging meat from under the noses of big cats is a risky business, so good scavengers needed to be smart. At this stage in our evolution, a big brain was associated with greater intellect.

Big brains require lots of energy to operate: the human brain uses 20% of the body’s total energy production. But the massive calorific hit provided by meat kick-started an increase in the brain size of early humans."

[Big RICHARD]

Is that why vegeterians (in general) come across as a bit thick?

[Rave]

That link there describes the scentificaly proven link between us eating meat and then developing large brains. (was also in a BBC documentary called Human instinct)<snip>

"Big brains require lots of energy to operate: the human brain uses 20% of the body’s total energy production. But the massive calorific hit provided by meat kick-started an increase in the brain size of early humans."

Right. Eating meat kick started human brain development. They're developed now though, and experience has shown that vegetarianism will not cause us to regress back into apes.

Rich :¬)

[G4Z]

I am not suggesting that if I stop eating meat I will regress to being an ape, I am simply stating that we have evolved to eat meat and therefore our bodies work better by processing meat. I dunno about you but my brain is deffo hard wired for meat, I love it.