Pro-Fox Hunting lobby

[G4Z]

Just been watching the news on TV (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3656524.stm) and seeing those guys "storm"(channel 4's words not mine) parliment and was wondering what you guys thought?

They also disrupted traffic on the M25 and had a bit of a scrap with police at parliment square. Good way to get your point across do you think? (especially considering the majority of people are against fox hunting)

Personally, I think its a very very bad way to go, I also happen to think their argument stinks, I bet drug retailers were not happy when they were made opium illegal because it put them out of a job. I doubt there are many pro-hunt supporters that would think that was a bad thing. So why should they be able to keep an industry that the majority of people in the country dont want?

Anyway, thats a side issue, I know the fuel protesters used similar tactics by causing disruption on the roads but I personally think that at the time the majority of people agreed fuel tax was too high and public acceptance was the only thing that allowed it to happen. This time things are different, should the police be arresting these people?

[ultimate]

Just goes to show what a mindless bunch of thugs that they are, and of course they should be arrested they are breaching goverment security.

Just as an issue when the miners, steelworkers, shipbuilders and many other industries lost their jobs I did not see these losers jumping on the band wagon then and supporting these genuine people, no they were away on their horses murdering defenceless animals, but now it's time for them to go and good riddance and they have the audacity to look to the public for support.

From my point of view they have'nt a chance in hell of my support

[G4Z]

The guys who broke into parliment were actually arrested, I just wonder if the public will view this kind of stunt in the same way the batman incident was viewed.

[Rave]

Before I start debating here I should say that I dislike people who enjoy hunting, and I don't particularly care whether they get to hunt any more. For me, the issue is about moral consistency.

Just been watching the news on TV (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3656524.stm) and seeing those guys "storm"(channel 4's words not mine) parliment and was wondering what you guys thought?

They also disrupted traffic on the M25 and had a bit of a scrap with police at parliment square. Good way to get your point across do you think? (especially considering the majority of people are against fox hunting)<snip>
Anyway, thats a side issue, I know the fuel protesters used similar tactics by causing disruption on the roads but I personally think that at the time the majority of people agreed fuel tax was too high and public acceptance was the only thing that allowed it to happen. This time things are different, should the police be arresting these people?

Well, it doesn't matter whether the majority of people are behind them or not, either people have a right to protest or they don't. If you didn't object to the direct action fuel protests, then you have no right AT ALL to object against this direct action protest. Either direct action is acceptable or it isn't, you can't pick and choose.

I also happen to think their argument stinks, I bet drug retailers were not happy when they were made opium illegal because it put them out of a job.

No- but drug dealers won't be happy if it were legalised again because then they'd be out of a job. If they did legalise it again it'd hugely reduce the amount of thefts, robberies and burglaries in this country though so it IS a good idea. How often do people get mugged by alcoholics? Not very, because £2.50 will buy them enough Diamond White to satisfy their adiction.

As I said, I don't hunt and so it doesn't affect me at all if the government choose to ban it. The point is though, the government claim that they're doing this to prevent animal cruelty, and that is truly laughable. Less than 10,000 foxes a year are killed by hunts; think how many millions of chickens live and die in horrific conditions in battery farms. It's much easier for the government to make the token effort to protect the fluffy-wuffy foxes* than it is to persuade the general populace to pay more than 50p for a half-dozen eggs.

The government should have the courage of its convictions, or it should STFU. The attempt to ban hunting is nothing but stupid class war idiocy, and I hate them for it.

Rich :¬)

*Foxes are genuinely unpleasant animals BTW. They'll happily break into a chicken coop and kill 10+ chickens before eating just one. I have no sympathy for the little sods.

[G4Z]

well, rich I actually agree with you there with some points, for example I am also in favor of drug legalisation.

One thing I dont agree with you on is the governments motives in this( and I am as cynical about this current govt as anybody), I think its really simple really, the govt has had a lot of critisism over various issues recently and this is a real vote winner, by fulfilling somthing that the majority wants they hope to stay in power. This of course is democracy in action a far cry from what they have been up to for the last couple of years. Either way, It wont win my vote.

The Direct action thing, I suppose when I think back I didnt really support the fuel protests at the time I just understood the motives, fortunately as I was a student at the time (i.e hardly left my house)and I had a micra witha tank full of fuel when it started so it did not inconvience me too much. I dont think I would support a fuel protest this time around to be honest. So All in all, balls to direct action!

Also, I seem to remember that the public in general didnt seem to mind the fuel protest as much as this time around, dont know if anybody seen C4 news and the guy going nuts at one of the pro-hunt fools in his horse box. was pretty funny.

[Rave]

One thing I dont agree with you on is the governments motives in this( and I am as cynical about this current govt as anybody), I think its really simple really, the govt has had a lot of critisism over various issues recently and this is a real vote winner, by fulfilling somthing that the majority wants they hope to stay in power. This of course is democracy in action

Well, In fact we agree on what the government's motivation is. They largely ignore the will of the people for 7 years while they pour money into the pockets of their Big-Business backers, then they come up with a rabble rousing, vote winning strategy the year before an election. Well, I'm not buying it. I honestly was young and idealistic enough to think that a Labour government was bound to have a stronger moral direction than the Tories when they were elected in 1997. I now know the error of my ways; at least I wasn't old enough to actually vote for them back then.

Rich :¬)

[coco]

on my local news first was the local hunts people on about defending there way of life and there right to hunt ,
the second was about a group of thugs using a six week old labrador cross puppie as a football, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tyne/3659090.stm
hmm i wonder if puppy football was an ancient blood sport it to would be defended by the
countryside alliance....

[Rave]

Hunting foxes is wrong, kicking puppies to death is wrong, keeping chickens in battery cages is wrong. Ban them all, or STFU.

Rich :¬)

[ultimate]

Lets reverse this, how about hunting the vermin humans? that cause all this mayhem, and believe me they do need culling

[Rave]

Lets reverse this, how about hunting the vermin humans? that cause all this mayhem, and believe me they do need culling

Has Alan Clark come back from the dead?

Rich :¬)

[da_ging]

those prats that stormed parliment deserve to go to jail if u ask me ,and that idiot batman should have been shot and was probably very lucky to have not been tbh ,these people have done nothing to help their cause as that is the very sort of action that makes us people at home watching it say "what an f'ing moron"

*Foxes are genuinely unpleasant animals BTW. They'll happily break into a chicken coop and kill 10+ chickens before eating just one. I have no sympathy for the little sods.

foxes are wild animals when they break into a chicken coop and kill some chickens they are to put it simply doing what they do naturaly getting some lunch ,i have no problem with them doing this they aint doing owt wrong and its the dumb ass farmers fault for not securing his animals ,we are in the wrong i mean we totally think we own this planet and any other creature if it inconvieniences us by going about its business like its done for hundreds and thousands of years before we invaded its patch it must die it is bs.

plus i think foxes look cute

as for fox hunting ,personally when ever i see them A-holes on the horses it just confirms my feeling that i could happily chase them across some fields and then blow a hole in them with a shotgun ,not particularly for the hunting but because of them and their attitudes

Lets reverse this, how about hunting the vermin humans? that cause all this mayhem, and believe me they do need culling

if any party was to stick that in the manefesto they'd be a sure thing to be elected

[Stewart]

Rave, me old mate, can you please stop saying 'STFU'? Its not needed to get your point across.

As for Fox Hunting being banned; good. I care not if these people lose their jobs, I care not if its their 'way of life', all I know is, some upper class cretin will soon no longer be able to put a red jacket on, climb on top of a horse blowing a bugle, and chase an animal across fields with a pack of baying dogs, before they catch it and rip it apart.

The scum who hunt and kill animals for sport (read: fun) are no different to the scum who kicked that puppy to the brink of death in the street. It takes a certain sort of person to kill something for enjoyment, and a certain sort of mug to fall for the story that it isn't cruel.

Having said that, its the tip of the iceberg, and although I'm not one of your free trade tea bag buying types, I'll happily pay more for a box of eggs, or whatever, if they ban all forms of obviously cruel animal treatment, even those not quite so high profile as chasing and ripping apart foxes with dogs.

End of the day, no one apart from the PETA nutters is going to object to the killing of animals; we kill animals for food and for necessity, in the case of foxes, rats and other vermin. Its the turning of the act into a sick sport that people object to.

When I call the council out to deal with a rat infestation, they don’t come round on horseback, and chase the rats with packs of wild badgers, before killing them and wiping the blood of their faces. Well, they did when I lived in Leeds, but its very different up North.

Right, seriously though:

Do you need to kill foxes? Yes.

Do you need to wear a red jacket, ride around on a horse blowing a bugle, whilst chasing and then tearing apart the fox with hounds? No.

It is the latter which is being banned, and if the pro-Hunt lobby kick up a stink now that their barbaric, sick 'sport' is being banned, I'm sure the country will show them what they think. Widespread support there will not be.

And if its class war as well... that's fine by me. A little bit of class warfare never hurt anybody; anyway, there are more of us than there is of them.

I'm in favour of the ban on my own personal, moral grounds; but if it puts a few noses out of joint amoungst the upper classes, that's fine by me.

[Rave]

Rave, me old mate, can you please stop saying 'STFU'? Its not needed to get your point across.

What, STufF U? No, I guess not, but I've seen nastier insults bandied about.

Fair enough though, I guess I shouldn't be that agressive before I've given any potential opponents their chance to be wrong. Sorry.

As for Fox Hunting being banned; good. I care not if these people lose their jobs, I care not if its their 'way of life', all I know is, some upper class cretin will soon no longer be able to put a red jacket on, climb on top of a horse blowing a bugle, and chase an animal across fields with a pack of baying dogs, before they catch it and rip it apart.

Right, so at the very beginning of your argument you betray your classism. I have plenty of very good reasons to hate the upper class country set; hunting is not one of them.

The scum who hunt and kill animals for sport (read: fun) are no different to the scum who kicked that puppy to the brink of death in the street. It takes a certain sort of person to kill something for enjoyment, and a certain sort of mug to fall for the story that it isn't cruel.

Having said that, its the tip of the iceberg, and although I'm not one of your free trade tea bag buying types, I'll happily pay more for a box of eggs

Do you though? Do you only buy free range eggs? I'm against hunting, and, despite being as tight as anyone I know, I'll only buy free range. If you can eat your eggs with a clear conscience, then good on ya, I'm just checking.

And if its class war as well... that's fine by me. A little bit of class warfare never hurt anybody; anyway, there are more of us than there is of them.

In Germany they came first for the Communists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist. Then they came for the Jews and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me--and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Yeah class war is good for all of us, history has proven that one.

Rich :¬)

[Stewart]

Good for us or not, the hunting yobs need to be shown that running into Parliment or trying it on with the police isn't going to change anything. I supposed you'd lie down and let anyone with a big stick and a big gob have their way?

Oh, by the way, I don't have to betray my classism, I'm working class, proud to be, and not in the slightest bit worried about being classist. If this were working class oiks dog fighting or bull baiting, there'd be no issue, just a ban. Now the upper class are having their barbaric sport banned, we're all supposed to bow down because a few prats in t-shirts ran into Parliment.

And no, I don't buy free range, I buy whatever I want to buy. Point is, if the government banned all forms of animal misteatment tomorrow, chicken conditions included, I wouldn't be put out of joint if I had to pay 50p more for my eggs. The issue is the killing for sport though, not the killing for food. Its the making of the act into a sick spectical and getting enjoyment from it that people object to.

I eat my eggs with a clear concience, I eat my bacon sarny with a clear concience; being against the mindless slaughter of animals for fun and sport does not make one a 'meat is murder' t-shirt wearing, PETA supporting loud mouth, running around throwing petrol bombs at receptionists cars because the work for an animal testing firm. It just means I'm not the type to support cruelty to animals for sport or fun.

If you don't want a class war, I suppose you better get your riding boots and 'Support The Right To Hunt' placard and get down to Parliment square mate. I'm sure the local police will have a warm welcome for you.

Tally ho!

Of course, its nothing to do with class really, they don't want to lose their jobs and way of life, we don't want them to continue killing animals for fun. It is them and us, but its not class, 'them' are the people who think its acceptable in a modern society to kill for fun and 'us' are the people who think its not and should, quite rightly be banned.

That is also what parliment voted for, and will soon, House of Lords support or not, become law. If you don't like it, you know what you can do...

[Rave]

Good for us or not, the hunting yobs need to be shown that running into Parliment or trying it on with the police isn't going to change anything. I supposed you'd lie down and let anyone with a big stick and a big gob have their way?

Nope, didn't say that did I? I'm merely saying that the hooligan element endemic to any emotive cause (Mayday riots? I've been inconvenienced by those, since I work in central London) don't necessarily mean that the majority of peaceful protestors are wrong.

Oh, by the way, I don't have to betray my classism, I'm working class, proud to be, and not in the slightest bit worried about being classist.

Why bother debating then? Seriously, if your predjudiced to start with, then you obviously must know you're right and you don't need to justify your views to any of us do you?

If this were working class oiks dog fighting or bull baiting, there'd be no issue, just a ban.

Wrong. The Countryside Alliance have considerable support from supporters of sports like terriering etc., some of whom I reckon are probably considerably more working class than you. I don't want to start a 'Four Yorkshiremen' type competition, but I consider myself middle class and I can't afford an X800Xt and an S939 system......

Now the upper class are having their barbaric sport banned, we're all supposed to bow down because a few prats in t-shirts ran into Parliment.

No. We're all supposed to call the government out on their hypocritical policies.

And no, I don't buy free range, I buy whatever I want to buy. Point is, if the government banned all forms of animal misteatment tomorrow, chicken conditions included, I wouldn't be put out of joint if I had to pay 50p more for my eggs.

What, so you need the government to tell you what's right and wrong?

The issue is the killing for sport though, not the killing for food. It the making of the act into a sick spectical and getting enjoyment from it that people object to.

Spectacle.

I eat my eggs with a clear concience, I eat my bacon sarny with a clear concience; being against the mindless salughter of animals for fun and sport does not make one a 'meat is murder' t-shirt wearing, PETA supporting loud mouth, running around throwing petrol bombs at receptionists cars because the work for an animal testing firm. It just means I'm not the type to support cruelty to animals for sport or fun.

No, it means you're the type of guy who doesn't give a toss about civil liberties until the government infringes your right to do what you want. Either you care about animal cruelty or you don't, make your mind up or be a drone who assumes everything the government tells you is correct.

If you don't want a class war, I suppose you better get your riding boots and 'Support The Right To Hunt' placard and get down to Parliment square mate. I'm sure the local police will have a warm welcome for you.

Tally ho!

I have more important infringements of my liberty to be concerned about. Be assured though, I won't let fascists like David Blunkett take my country from me without a fight.

Rich :¬)

[Stewart]

Why bother debating then? Seriously, if your predjudiced to start with, then you obviously must know you're right and you don't need to justify your views to any of us do you?

Prejudiced before I start? Of course I am. I hate those who kill animals for sport, from the off. I don't approach this with an open mind, looking to see reason in the other person’s argument, anymore than I would approach a debate on paedophiles and their rights with an open mind.

I say again - killing animals for sport and enjoyment is wrong, anyone who thinks it is acceptable in modern society is wrong.

Wrong. The Countryside Alliance have considerable support from supporters of sports like terriering etc., some of whom I reckon are probably considerably more working class than you. I don't want to start a 'Four Yorkshiremen' type competition, but I consider myself middle class and I can't afford an X800Xt and an S939 system......

Consider yourself middle class do you? On what grounds?

And don't get computerist on me, baby! I reckon the reason I can afford an X800XT and a S939 system (and a MachII GT phase change cooler, by the way) is because I'm 23, single (well, as good as) and live at home. You are older, Married, living with the wife and (maybe) have kids to support.

Maybe that's why working class scum like me have X800XTs (X800XT-PE to you, by the way ), and middle class gents like you, do not.

What, so you need the government to tell you what's right and wrong?

No, but I do tend to follow the law... it’s the law, don't you know?

Spectacle.

Agree, disagree, comment. Don't pick out a typo mate, it makes you look as if you couldn't think of anything to say, or in this case, type. Just a quick tip for you there, me old mucker. (That's working class for 'Some advice for you, old chap)

For instance it’s ‘prejudiced’ and not, as you typed ‘predjudiced’, but I wouldn’t point that out now, would I?

No, it means you're the type of guy who doesn't give a toss about civil liberties until the government infringes your right to do what you want. Either you care about animal cruelty or you don't, make your mind up or be a drone who assumes everything the government tells you is correct.

I don't give a toss about the civil liberties of those who wish to use their civil liberties to hunt and kill animals for fun, no. Why, do you?

I have more important infringements of my liberty to be concerned about. Be assured though, I won't let fascists like David Blunkett take my country from me without a fight.

The fear is palpable.

From Merriam Webster:

"a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascist) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition"

Blunket has really gone down hill, hasn't he? I thought the worst he got up to was seeing a married bird on the side. Now he's one step from being the new Adolf Eichmann!

Where's Corporal Jones when you need him?

"Don't panic, don't panic, the SS-Obersturmbannführer is here, don't panic!"