New ATI Tuner Card.

[blakev]

Belgium use PAL or SECAM ?

Only France, as usual, broadcasts in secam. 60 million French canna be Wrong, eh?

In ref to remarks above: so now we discover that this add-in card's mpeg-dedicated hardware is only exploitable using the bundled software... and can't "yet" use the in-house star performer....

ummm...

Market research is one thing. Sure, many moms and dads don't really understand much and just want it simple. May I humbly suggest that if marketing had really asked them, that they would surely have said that they'd prefer just buying a TV.

But let's suppose that they want to "branch out", or that other less experienced folk finally want to get involved, then they'll all surely be taking advice from the more savy. And what are they saying about all this?

Someone suggested an SDK and example boards be shipped about. This is a strong candidate to go to Important Item Number One in Your List, Andrzej, of stuff to bug your dear ATI colleagues about. Get mom and dad's kids (you know, the 16 to 40 somethings) back on board; so to speak.

As for secam delays, I'm getting used to it

b

[e.lectronick]

Hear! Hear! blakev. You're right on the money.

Vaporware is an ugly word. One I had hoped would not be associated with ATI. I've always had the greatest respect for their products and have used them exclusively. Nevertheless, when a product is touted with desirable features, then fails to come through... It gets awarded the big "V".

Oh, sure, we can split hairs and argue that the *chip* is still compatible with MMC, but if it isn't implemented in the product, then the knowlege that it "could work with MMC, but it just doesn't" isn't all that helpful.

I hate to say it, Andrzej, but pandering to the lowest common denominator (people with fear of vcrs) only works with people who just own vcrs. Maybe not even then. The big market for this chip -as I understand it- is us. We're the people who've been clamoring about it for months now, asking tons of questions and eagerly awaiting it's release. Why can't ATI fathom that?
The whole point of owning a computer is not to just have three buttons on the front: Play, REW, and Stop. There's a whole keyboard and GUI, which -when combined- allow an infinite number of configuration commands and controls. Computer owners understand and appreciate that. Savvy software designers with their ears to the ground grasp this too. Some have even offered their software with a big button that switches between "easy mode" and "advanced mode" to narrow the gap between dumb users and smart ones.

ATI Theater chips have *always* worked best with ATI's MMC software. Hands down. That's a large part of what made them so popular. You just don't switch horses in midstream. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, etc... You may insert your own appropriate proverb here ____________.

I'm going to state right now, for the record, that unless MMC software is engineered to work with this card, I'm just not interested in it. Maybe some smart hacker out there will figure out a way to do what ATI will not. But until then, thumbs down. Maybe ATI is saving that compatibility for some later to be released, much more expensive card (like an AIW). But then again, they promised affordability too.

I just can't believe it. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. This amazing technology is wasted without proper (eg complete) configurability built into the software. It's like putting a Porsche engine into a Volkswagen Beetle. Sure, you get a much faster Beetle, but it sure ain't no Porsche. And I think if you're going to advertise it to be a Porsche, you'd better deliver on that promise.

Just my 2 cents. But I have my ear to the ground and I guarantee you the reviewers are going to comment on this shortcoming. And when they do, you're going to lose half your buying audience. Is it really worth it? I don't think so.

-Erik.

[SHSPVR]

You say they did a lot of research and they belive there be a massive growth in MCE that odd when the only a few way to get MCE is buy new system all ready build or they will have to need fine OEM dealer that sell MCE after all MCE not a retail product.

[e.lectronick]

I would have had MCE already had it not been for the fact that you can't get the OS alone like you can get XP. Plenty of people like to build their own systems or are happy with them the way they are. Why not sell MCE with the clear list of compatible hardware and let buyers make their own decision what they need to make it work?

Dumb. Somebody offer Microsoft a bullet for their foot, too.

And anyway, does MCE offer any greater configurability with the Theatrix or TV Wonder Elite than Cyberlink? I bet not.

-Erik.

[ciregnol]

e.lectronick:

You can buy MCE alone now.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...102-311&depa=0

[SHSPVR]

MCE maybe a nice product with a cool user interface but it what under the hood that a major problem.
1: File format DVR-MS is 100% carp which take 2x more work if want build DVD.
2: Must have MCE remote/IR Blaster in order to user the S/Video or Composite input.
3: Can't do customize Audio/Video setting and Prefiltering settings etc, etc giving US more control so your stuck with there carp profile.
4: No Multi-Source input.
5: DVR-MS format only work under XP.
6: MCE support (CGMS-A) Content Generation Management System for Analog which really bad for every one.
7: Media Center also requires a hefty PC to run smoothly due to DVR-MS File format.
8: Must have compatible DirectX 9.0 graphics card.
9: No Channel TV Logo support.
10: No Network Encoders.
11: No Client Software.
12: Woste part of this is Windows XP Phone Home BS (I'm not talk about the Automatic Updating stuff) I talk about the Windows Product Activation, aka WPA which verifying your Product Key which sent out everthing you log on to internet or go to Windows Update Manual or even with Automatic Updating stuff.

Sorry ciregnol but you need read that page it clear state *Must be purchased with hardware*

[ciregnol]

I'm a newbie to MCE, but from what I have learned:
1. DVR-MS is MPEG2 with a wrapper around it to give more information, and add digital rights ability
2. Not true. You can use mouse to configure settings.
3. Still looking into this one, but there is TweakMCE and some other programs which give you access to the hidden settings.
4. MCE 2005 supports multiple tuners. I personally have had a Theatrix 550 and PVR-150 in at same time with no problems.
5. True, unless you convert to MPEG.
7. Don't know much about CGMS-A, but I think it's digital rights, which MS has to include to keep Hollywood from suing them.
8. Probably true
9. Not sure what this means
10. or this one
11. or this one
12. Don't forget it also sends the information recorded by the strip of plastic in your currency to the Pentagon. Come on, they send all your usage information? I'd like to see a packet-level capture showing that. Windows Product Activation is sometimes a pain, but if you actually own the product, it is trivial to work with.

Often, you can purchase a floppy drive, mouse, or other inexpensive hardware to qualify for the OEM version. Certainly getting a capture card with it should qualify.

so buy it with a mouse or really cheap video card or something.

[myth]

Warning,

A little advice! The tuner trys to use resources that are in use on the MSI neo plat 2 mobo... So if you happen to have this board don't get this tuner! However if you do you will need to reinstall windows and select a different HAl... Hit F5 while installing to select Standard PC HAL. This will allow you to specify the resources for the tuner card... Either way the tuner still needs some decent drivers and ATI has yet to put any suport up on there web site....

http://support.microsoft.com/default...;EN-US;Q315278

Andrzej,

Where is MMC 9.04

[ciregnol]

Nice to see you again myth. I missed you.

[myth]

Nice to see you again myth. I missed you.

And I missed all of you! But I'm back!

[SHSPVR]

2. I wasn't ware you could do that and nobody said how to do it far I know of.
4. Sorry but I said Multi-Source so you wrong there you can't have one S/Video and one Tuner with MCE you must run all same source with multiple card which is a diff then ture Multi-Source and would like piont out in SageTV we can use Multi-Source with on one card but we can't record from both source at same time for that we will need Dual TV card as well.
7. Not a part of any Law this something that HBO and Hollywood come with.
9. Display TV channel logo in the TV Guide just like in this below screenshot
http://www.shspvr.com/reviews/sage2/...reenshot03.jpg
10, 11 take look at SageTV, SageTV Recorder (This can be user for Network Encoder over local lan) and SageTV Client.
ciregnol but said (You can buy MCE alone now) which wrong and yes I know purchase of any hardware to qualify for the OEM version.

[yamangman]

Should probably warn people that if you chose a standard HAL you will lose ACPI plus older standard power features, APIC, and any other services and BIOS features that rely on ACPI and APIC, which could mean you lose many features.

[myth]

Should probably warn people that if you chose a standard HAL you will lose ACPI plus older standard power features, APIC, and any other services and BIOS features that rely on ACPI and APIC, which could mean you lose many features.

well, thats the only way I can find to reasign the resources... But if any of you know of a better way please let me know!

[blakev]

DVR-MS is MPEG2 with a wrapper around it to give more information, and add digital rights ability

MS' DVD format is the same sort of cr*p as that other culprit wmv, that other DRM honeypot, where you get burned on some fool either forgetting he encoded with his DRM on, and in these delightful additional little bits and bytes there is a switch that requires that your box hold the licence to play said video, and of course the licence is only on the box of the fool, or worse, opening the file triggers a lovely little interactive function that bumps you up to a webpage with the invitation to buy the rights or just forget about opening the file. As we speak there is still a good chance someone has unph*kt the DRM routine in question. But it shall get worse.
Of course you can just delete the file. Waste your time/bandwidth.
Caution, now and forevermore, on encoding ANY solution/file format with DRM written into the spec. It is entirely possible to add DRM data to the header of an encoded stream: thus someone else can appropriate your encoding work and try to earn bucks from it.
Thus the importance of our having discovered that this card can also pass through raw data that we can subsequently encode as we wish. And avoid DRM. For a little while longer.

[exAndrzej]

...an SDK...

Will check !

[exAndrzej]

...massive growth in MCE...

If successful - it will be driven by the market and comparative pricing

Users will look at XP Pro and MCE - consider what applications they want to run and - if they will use the PC in the living room - then maybe they will specify MCE for their new PC