Hamilton's 3rd Place at Australia in Question

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Presumably all the drivers only do what they are told when they commit rules infringements, but what does it matter?

matters alot. you are just a driver and are doing what your boss tells u to do. listen to the convo, he did exactly what his team told him to do.

i dont understand your quote "but what does it matter?" drivers do sometimes make there own decisions but listen to the feed man, he asked his team what he SHOULD do..

[kalniel]

Hamilton gave misleading evidence to the stewards. What does it matter whether he did that on his own back or because he was told to? The end result is exactly the same - it was wrong and McLaren were punished.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

Hamilton gave misleading evidence to the stewards. What does it matter whether he did that on his own back or because he was told to? The end result is exactly the same - it was wrong and McLaren were punished.

ahh i see what you mean. you wasnt clear before though

hamiltons pass was legit, trullis pass was legit, lying is not legit - thats the problem.
am i right so far?

[malfunction]

matters alot. you are just a driver and are doing what your boss tells u to do. listen to the convo, he did exactly what his team told him to do.

i dont understand your quote "but what does it matter?" drivers do sometimes make there own decisions but listen to the feed man, he asked his team what he SHOULD do..

Your argument is specious (+1 for the word of the day toiler paper)... He had a duty to act correctly regardless of whether or not it was his own decision or something forced upon him. Any way - relax - it's just sport and it was only the first race of the season. There's plenty of time for McLaren to improve the car and Hamilton to get some points in. Personally I'm starting to wonder how much of Hamilton's lack of appeal to certain people is down to how the team have acted and how they continue to act. There are a lot of F1 fans that don't particularly care about the nationality of the drivers (which is to say that they respect skill and character normally regardless of nationality)... Perhaps if McLaren started giving Kovaleinen a competitive strategy they'd get more respect and maybe even more points...

ahh i see what you mean. you wasnt clear before though

hamiltons pass was legit, trullis pass was legit, lying is not legit - thats the problem.
am i right so far?

Edit: you posted again while I was writing this; ignore most of the above as I'm not seeking an argument especially as you now obviously understand what our point has been all along...

On another topic this article made me giggle:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74171

He might be right but I'm not sure it's the only thing that needs to improve to get better results!

[j.o.s.h.1408]

edit: nevermind

[malfunction]

read my post above yours mate

Yup, have done and edited mine accordingly...

[j.o.s.h.1408]

cool same here . i hope ham and co dont get kicked out of this seasons f1.

edit: the team is to blame as well has hamitlon, had the team originaly said that he diddnt have to let truli go past him, he would have finished 3rd has ham overtook truli legitimately innit

[malfunction]

cool same here . i hope ham and co dont get kicked out of this seasons f1.

edit: the team is to blame as well has hamitlon, had the team originaly said that he diddnt have to let truli go past him, he would have finished 3rd has ham overtook truli legitimately innit

I really can't see how they'd kick them out - it would be very stupid and perhaps could even ruin the team given Brawn's performance with the Merc engine. And yes the team and driver are both at fault hence McLaren suspending Dave Ryan - probably both as punishment and as a public sacrifice to show willing and hopefully avoid any further sanctions. In terms of a 'fair' (or fairer than outright disqualification from the whole season) perhaps they could remove points from the team (but not the drivers) for the next race but that seems harsh. Though personally I think most if not all of the penalties handed out are harsh - for example with regards to last week I support Vettel's fine for driving around with a wheel hanging off instead of pulling over but I don't support his 10 place drop for this week - yes it was a bit of a stupid move considering the consequences but it was a racing incident the happened in the name of overtaking and punishing people for trying a brave overtake (or defend) isn't going to help the sport stay interesting (I'm not saying that all such incidents should go unpunished but in this case I think it should have).

[ACiD303]

Yes, interesting that. It was clear yesterday that Martin Whitmarsh either didn't have the full picture or was lying... It's quite possible that Lewis was acting under team orders in the original interview with the stewards too - it's easy to imagine him just doing what the team ask of him. Of course Dave Ryan could just be the scapegoat too!

For someone who has been with the team since 1976, before I was even born, I really hope he's not a scapegoat. But clearly it shows someone, or something, in the McLaren process was at fault and someone must be held accountable.

The thing is, this is a which anyone could've made - and if it was intentionally misleading, then someone is to blame. McLaren are either proving themselves guilty, or as you say, someone's being made a scapegoat. I'd be very interested in hearing what Dave Ryan has to say (if he's able to talk to the media at all).

It's hard to believe that after the espionage fiasco that Pedro de la Rosa was kept on the roster, as it proved he was a liability to the company - and that was a much more serious crime. Maybe Whitmarsh is showing the McLaren team who's the new boss. I dunno.

[Vimeous]

Macca suspended their sporting director.

Regards punishments
While I agree they are often questionably harsh I don't think a fine is enough because most drivers in F1 won't feel enough of a pinch. They drive to win are unlikely to care if they get paid £25k less this week - as long as they can still drive.
Rule breaking should impact a drivers ability to win as other punitive measures won't be deterrant enough.

[malfunction]

Regards punishments
While I agree they are often questionably harsh I don't think a fine is enough because most drivers in F1 won't feel enough of a pinch. They drive to win are unlikely to care if they get paid £25k less this week - as long as they can still drive.
Rule breaking should impact a drivers ability to win as other punitive measures won't be deterrant enough.

Fair point - not sure what sort of salary Vettel is on but I'm sure $50,000 is a lot less to him than it would be for me!

[ACiD303]

I am not Liar, insists Hamilton - BBC

Fair play to the guy, I'm far from one of his fans, but this time I have some sympathy for him if he was really misled - he's still young and there's a big lesson learnt there. I think he's been through enough for the first race as defending champion, and I'm sure he'll come back stronger for it - all champs do. Everyone should just move on from this and look forward now

[malfunction]

So he was definitely acting on orders then. Doesn't excuse it but it is somewhat predictable. This made me laugh though

World champion Hamilton also insisted the debacle was "definitely the worst thing I've experienced in my life".

While I'm sure he feels like he's been done up like a kipper I doubt it's the worst thing he's ever experienced even at the 'tender' age of 24. If so he's had a luckier life than I thought!

[j.o.s.h.1408]

well at the end of the day, he was just following orders

[malfunction]

well at the end of the day, he was just following orders

[PREDICTABLE RESPONSE]Ja, mein Führer![/PREDICTABLE RESPONSE]

While nothing like as serious just following orders is not a good enough excuse at the end of the day. It may mitigate some of the blame in this case but not all of it.

[j.o.s.h.1408]

[PREDICTABLE RESPONSE]Ja, mein Führer![/PREDICTABLE RESPONSE]

While nothing like as serious just following orders is not a good enough excuse at the end of the day. It may mitigate some of the blame in this case but not all of it.

i agree. he lied but was told to do so. its not as if he had a gun to his head telling him he needs to lie but still u cant blame Ham fully. only a bit for not making the right decision.