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Thread: AMD - Zen chitchat

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkI View Post
    I saw this as well. He really cut throught the mud here. Anyone interested in a more mid range budget now is in a bit of an uncomfortable position. Like the Hexus review, if they had just been that little bit cheaper this release would have been worth waiting for stock. Tech Deals mentions the i9 9900k as a good value proposition but it seems like its cheaper in his neck of the woods.

    No stock anyway. Awkward!
    It was the equivalent of £290 including VAT in the UK which is a solid deal IMHO. I had around £300 saved up for a new CPU,so I am going to just hunt around for a Ryzen 7 3700X deal,even if gaming performance isn't as good. He also mentioned that people are repeating the same mistakes of years ago WRT to 4 cores vs more cores(it might this video or the other one he did talking about it),and that 6 cores for $300 to $350 has been around for years. Sure those older 6 cores are slower,but you would have had use of them for a few years. So $300 in the current market is not really fantastic even though the CPUs are good. The issue is next year even at some point if AMD releases cheaper Zen3 CPUs,I really don't know if we will end up paying more because of exchange rates,VAT increase,more taxes,etc because of the issues in 2020. Plus what I really want is a Ryzen 7 5700X,but if the Ryzen 7 5800X is £430,then how much is the Ryzen 7 5700X going to cost if the Ryzen 5 5600X is around £280?? £350?? £380??

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by atemporal View Post
    what do people think about a barebones system built around the 4x00U? (and which renoir chip should I go for if they're not a turkey?)

    (or is this not the place for that?)
    It depends on what model?? The 6C/12T model,which is the 4600 series,is the minimum I would go for. However,already we have seen leaked roadmaps and details of the Zen3 based laptop APUs,so we should see desktop ones too!!

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    It depends on what model?? The 6C/12T model,which is the 4600 series,is the minimum I would go for. However,already we have seen leaked roadmaps and details of the Zen3 based laptop APUs,so we should see desktop ones too!!
    roadmaps but when are they due? It's a perenial problem - something better will always arrive. Can you get the 4600 et al at the moment? I thought they weren't out in the real world, just a paper launch.

    atemporal have you found a supplier or do you mean a system with them in?

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    roadmaps but when are they due? It's a perenial problem - something better will always arrive. Can you get the 4600 et al at the moment? I thought they weren't out in the real world, just a paper launch.

    atemporal have you found a supplier or do you mean a system with them in?
    Its the laptop APU roadmap - it also wouldn't surprise me one bit,if the cheaper Zen3 stack will end up being APUs.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Any link to it? Be interested to see

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    Any link to it? Be interested to see
    https://videocardz.com/newz/amd-ryze...5-4600u-renoir

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    This is the more current article it links to which says
    The only difference will be the Zen architecture used (Zen3 vs Zen2). Both Cezanne and Lucienne are to use the same GCN-based Radeon Vega graphics.
    So slightly faster chips with SMT but otherwise similarly performing so depending on use case scenario it may be a case of bird in the hand vs two in the bush etc.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkI View Post
    I saw this as well. He really cut throught the mud here. Anyone interested in a more mid range budget now is in a bit of an uncomfortable position. Like the Hexus review, if they had just been that little bit cheaper this release would have been worth waiting for stock. Tech Deals mentions the i9 9900k as a good value proposition but it seems like its cheaper in his neck of the woods.

    No stock anyway. Awkward!
    don't rule out 3300X and then upgrade to 5600x when prices drop

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    don't rule out 3300X and then upgrade to 5600x when prices drop
    The Ryzen 3 3300X is rare as hen's teeth now and costs almost the same as the Ryzen 5 3600! You can get a 6C/12T Core i5 10400F for £140. The Ryzen 3 3100X costs £20 more than a Core i3 10100F.

    Also with the higher Zen3 pricing AMD can justify not actually dropping Zen2 prices too!

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    It looks like the Ryzen 5 5600X does seem to fall apart if you want to stream any games:
    https://youtu.be/LQgX9tSxQdI?t=404

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    I had around £300 saved up for a new CPU,so I am going to just hunt around for a Ryzen 7 3700X deal,even if gaming performance isn't as good.
    I don't see how prices can stay like this. Amazon have the 3900X for a few quid more than a pre-order at Currys (who seem the more modest out of stock values) have the 5800X. £426 vs £420.

    Let the madness die down, and I'm sure when there is actual stock on shelves the prices won't be so bad. I'm looking to buy a cpu for work. It isn't even my money, and I'm loathed to spend at current prices.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    3900X dipped to £390ish but when new it was good to get it for £480. It's the 5800X that is overpriced IMO.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    I don't see how prices can stay like this. Amazon have the 3900X for a few quid more than a pre-order at Currys (who seem the more modest out of stock values) have the 5800X. £426 vs £420.

    Let the madness die down, and I'm sure when there is actual stock on shelves the prices won't be so bad. I'm looking to buy a cpu for work. It isn't even my money, and I'm loathed to spend at current prices.
    Then we move into next year. The government might have to increase taxes,VAT,etc to cover the costs of the problems this year. If we have no deal expect more costs,especially if duties are applied. Even if there is a deal,all those new border arrangements will add to import costs,etc especially as companies like Amazon use cross EU warehousing. Then if the USD:£ exchange rates go in favour of the USD,then more price increases.

    There is a lot of noise that warehousing is at a premium too,so that won't help either and is on top of the "nice" AMD price hike. A Core i3 10100F and Core i5 10400F,are the cheapest 4C/8T and 6C/12T current generation CPUs. Now Intel is the "value" brand!

    People should have seen what was going to happen when AMD said they didn't want to be a budget brand.

    So in light of that AMD can keep their Zen3 CPUs. They decided to up the price of the Ryzen 5 5600X by $50~$100(depends if you think its a Ryzen 5 3600 or Ryzen 5 3600X successor going by the TDP and included cooler).

    Even if there is a cheaper Ryzen 5 5600 non-X,its coming at the wrong time for us in the UK. Moreover,AMD at best has maintained between a $30~$50 difference between the non-X and X series 6 cores. So assuming its $50 just like the previous two generations,at the very least you are looking a £225 Ryzen 5 5600 non-X which will be third tier sillicon at best. AMD hasn't used the 95W TDP tier for the Ryzen 5 yet,so expect them to be saving up them up for the Ryzen 5 5600XT to fight either Rocketlake or Alderlake.

    Then one has to ask is a 6 core going to be a great idea a few years down the line? I doubt it. The Core i5 10600K was also poor value too.Then AMD and Intel can sell you another more expensive upgrade then.

    Where does this leave the Ryzen 7 5700X then?? If its the same $70 difference between the Ryzen 7 3800X and Ryzen 7 3700X,that means a $379 RRP,or closer to £350. If AMD decides to keep it to $50,its £370(the Ryzen 7 5800X UK RRP is tracking roughly £10~£20 higher than a perfect conversion with VAT). That is assuming all the other import costs,etc and taxes cost the same. If not then we are triply screwed over in price!

    The only realistic way for prices to noticeably better is for Intel to not only deliver on Rocketlake and Alderlake,but also to possibly undercut AMD. If not then we are stuck with the current pricing. If you want 12 or 16 cores,then the next two Intel releases probably won't change anything.

    Then you have all the foolish lot justifying the price escalation meaning its going to get worse unless Intel can actually compete. They did it with GPUs,and we saw where they went(upwards). We knew this day was coming,I just didn't realise it would come before Zen4!

    So for me I am going to look for a new Ryzen 7 3700X deal if its closer to £200. If not I am stuck with this Ryzen 5 2600 even if performance is rather meh for me in some games now. It also means I won't bother upgrading my GPU either if that is the case(will use it until it does not work).

    If it means I have to start playing mostly older games,etc then be it. I have better to things to spend money on. The whales already started ruining PC gaming,now they will ruin the hardware part too. Best to let them as they will justify it as "winning" so much they lose.

    I regret not just spending the extra £200 on a Core i7 8700 two years ago. Now I have to spend even more just to get a better version of it,and the Ryzen 7 3700X is not always faster in all titles.

    PS,if you want the best deal:
    https://www.awd-it.co.uk/amd-ryzen-9...pu-bundle.html

    AWD-IT seem to be running out of their Ryzen 9 3900 non-X stocks now. They used to offer it on more motherboards at around £310~£325. The price is now going slowly up on their bundles.

    Edit!!

    What is even worse is that the Zen3 chiplet is barely 10% larger too,and using the same GF I/O die too.

    TSMC 7NM and GF 12/14NM are not anywhere near state of the art nodes now.No wonder AMD net margins nicely went up this year,and that was during the worst of the pandemic with China shut down,and that was with zero RRP increase either.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 25-11-2020 at 02:38 AM.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Thanks, but this is for work use so I would want something like:

    https://www.awd-it.co.uk/amd-ryzen-9...pu-bundle.html

    so it can fit a 2U uATX rackmount case and support the 64BG of ECC ram I'm considering for it. Ideally I would like an Asrock-rack board, but I can't justify that money in a small company.

    Either way, no-one has any stock so the prices are utterly academic. I might be forced by stock levels and project timings to go 3900X. In theory that would fit in the Asus B350M gaming board currently in that server, but a high end CPU on those old VRMs makes me nervous. Boards have improved quite a bit since the B350 days. Right now it is only supporting a 2600X.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Thanks, but this is for work use so I would want something like:

    https://www.awd-it.co.uk/amd-ryzen-9...pu-bundle.html

    so it can fit a 2U uATX rackmount case and support the 64BG of ECC ram I'm considering for it. Ideally I would like an Asrock-rack board, but I can't justify that money in a small company.

    Either way, no-one has any stock so the prices are utterly academic. I might be forced by stock levels and project timings to go 3900X. In theory that would fit in the Asus B350M gaming board currently in that server, but a high end CPU on those old VRMs makes me nervous. Boards have improved quite a bit since the B350 days. Right now it is only supporting a 2600X.
    https://www.awd-it.co.uk/asus-rog-st...ocket-am4.html



    £477 with the same motherboard and a Ryzen 9 3900 non-X. The Ryzen 9 5900X is £212 more,which is a decent chunk of the price of 64GB of ECC DDR4.

    Also this is the Ryzen 9 3900 non-X. It consumes as much power as the Ryzen 7 3700X....or my Ryzen 5 2600. There is hardly a performance difference between the Ryzen 9 3900 non-X and Ryzen 9 3900X:
    https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/revi...eview-eco-mode

    I get the impression AWD-IT is starting to run out of its Ryzen 9 3900 non-X stocks,so £310 for a Ryzen 9 3900 non-X is a decent deal IMHO. Its cheaper per core than a Ryzen 5 3600 or Ryzen 9 3700X at current street prices!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 25-11-2020 at 11:50 AM.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by ik9000 View Post
    roadmaps but when are they due? It's a perenial problem - something better will always arrive. Can you get the 4600 et al at the moment? I thought they weren't out in the real world, just a paper launch.

    atemporal have you found a supplier or do you mean a system with them in?
    I've just seen them in mini PCs and a few laptops/micro towers. I like the idea of a small unit that won't engulf the entire desk. Can you get them as standalones? I think that would be interesting paired with an ITX or mATX board.

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