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Thread: AMD - Zen chitchat

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat



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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    Hmm... if it can be unlocked via software for Zen2, could it be also unlocked for some older Intel CPus and NVIDIA GPUs then?

    I didn't research it very well, but if that's true regarding Zen2 then this is something that could've been done a long time ago, just nobody (apart from AMD now) thought about doing it to increase performance.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by SilentSnake View Post
    Hmm... if it can be unlocked via software for Zen2, could it be also unlocked for some older Intel CPus and NVIDIA GPUs then?

    I didn't research it very well, but if that's true regarding Zen2 then this is something that could've been done a long time ago, just nobody (apart from AMD now) thought about doing it to increase performance.
    Something similar to SAM already works under Linux with Zen2 and earlier AMD GPUs IIRC.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    The closest mention to Zen2 I saw on those links was ASUS not recommending the use of Zen2 or a few other CPUs (with the implication that the Beta BIOSes could be detrimental to their performance as it's not aimed at those CPUs), there doesn't seem to be a specific mention that it will be coming to Zen2.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by Output View Post
    The closest mention to Zen2 I saw on those links was ASUS not recommending the use of Zen2 or a few other CPUs (with the implication that the Beta BIOSes could be detrimental to their performance as it's not aimed at those CPUs), there doesn't seem to be a specific mention that it will be coming to Zen2.
    Well Guru3D did say the following:

    The colleagues from Computerbase report that all current BIOS files for ASRock are supported as well as MSI who distributed the first beta versions to testers, which on the one hand enable Smart Access Memory on X470 and B450 and on the other hand roll out AGESA v2 1.1.8.0 with Curve Optimizer.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    AMD might be doing a bait and switch over RX6000 pricing:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk20IzZN-xk&t=596s

    HUB is not happy at all!!


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    AMD might be doing a bait and switch over RX6000 pricing:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk20IzZN-xk&t=596s

    HUB is not happy at all!!
    Didn't they sort of did this with all the fanfare surrounding the 480 launch? Though that the headline $199 cards were available as references and eventual AIB, but the 8GB models were not and it takes ages after the launch before 8GB cards were anywhere near the nominal $229 or whatever they headline at launch was.

    On the Nvidia side, the F's Edition went from overpriced poor value cards in previous generations to limited availability introductory prices which no AIB are going to match - at least for the first 6+ months until Palit or someone comes up with a cheaply-made cards.

    Prices should eventually come down but we do know that 7nm GPUs are about the least profitable thing AMD can chose * to make with their 7nm wafer supply so not expecting a glut of them any time soon.

    Still surprised by the shortage of Renoir after all these months. Even an initial under-estimate should have been corrected by now. I know historically there was some times when AMD had to write-down unsold inventory, and currently they are all mad about margins for the stock market, but surely under-estimating demand is very dangerous too?

    *Aside from the console chips but it seems Sony and Microsoft have a pretty good solid contract there.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Didn't they sort of did this with all the fanfare surrounding the 480 launch? Though that the headline $199 cards were available as references and eventual AIB, but the 8GB models were not and it takes ages after the launch before 8GB cards were anywhere near the nominal $229 or whatever they headline at launch was.

    On the Nvidia side, the F's Edition went from overpriced poor value cards in previous generations to limited availability introductory prices which no AIB are going to match - at least for the first 6+ months until Palit or someone comes up with a cheaply-made cards.

    Prices should eventually come down but we do know that 7nm GPUs are about the least profitable thing AMD can chose * to make with their 7nm wafer supply so not expecting a glut of them any time soon.

    Still surprised by the shortage of Renoir after all these months. Even an initial under-estimate should have been corrected by now. I know historically there was some times when AMD had to write-down unsold inventory, and currently they are all mad about margins for the stock market, but surely under-estimating demand is very dangerous too?

    *Aside from the console chips but it seems Sony and Microsoft have a pretty good solid contract there.
    It's just sapping any enthusiasm I have on actually buying any new parts for my PC.



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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Still surprised by the shortage of Renoir after all these months. Even an initial under-estimate should have been corrected by now. I know historically there was some times when AMD had to write-down unsold inventory, and currently they are all mad about margins for the stock market, but surely under-estimating demand is very dangerous too?
    Really? I'm seeing mini PCs and laptops popping up all over the place.

    OTOH, I just ordered some PC bits for work. Ended up asking for a 3900XT due to availability, about the only thing around at a decent price seemed to be the 3700X which I nearly downgraded to as the usually expensive price is starting to look quite the bargain. My usual "lob a cheap RX570 in there" is no longer a thing, they seem to have dried up so I ended up with a nasty looking RX550. I wondered if I should split the big monster machine into two small machines, but 3600 CPUs are stupidly expensive so that isn't really an option.

    At least you can buy RAM atm.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Really? I'm seeing mini PCs and laptops popping up all over the place.

    OTOH, I just ordered some PC bits for work. Ended up asking for a 3900XT due to availability, about the only thing around at a decent price seemed to be the 3700X which I nearly downgraded to as the usually expensive price is starting to look quite the bargain. My usual "lob a cheap RX570 in there" is no longer a thing, they seem to have dried up so I ended up with a nasty looking RX550. I wondered if I should split the big monster machine into two small machines, but 3600 CPUs are stupidly expensive so that isn't really an option.
    When I posted that last link,AWD-IT had the Ryzen 9 3900 non-X and the Asus Strix B550-F for £470. But apparently it must have sold out and now is £540 which isn't as cheap.

    The Ryzen 7 3700X prices are higher now - a few weeks ago I could have got one for closer to £250 from Amazon Germany. This Black Friday is just a con IMHO.

    I actually found better deals on Amazon Warehouse. I found a Corsair SF600 Platimum for £75.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    At least you can buy RAM atm.
    Only the Hynix CJR/DJR RAM if you want 32GB,and isn't that great with 400 series motherboards AFAIK,and has high CAS latencies. The Micron E-die 3600MHZ 32GB has run out,and Amazon had the 3200MHZ 32GB kit for £90 a week ago,and I decided to wait and see if there would be a deal on the 3600MHZ. Instead the 3200MHZ kit is more expensive today.



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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    It's just sapping any enthusiasm I have on actually buying any new parts for my PC.

    Need versus want.
    Mainly because I haven't upgraded for so long, I have some PC Upgrade-itis want, but very little need which means less electronic junk to eventually end up in landfill and that is surely a good thing.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    When I posted that last link,AWD-IT had the Ryzen 9 3900 non-X and the Asus Strix B550-F for £470. But apparently it must have sold out and now is £540 which isn't as cheap.
    Yep, I did look at that and between your posting and my looking (which wasn't that long I think) they were out. OFC in my comment I had linked to the wrong motherboard (I hate navigating their site!), and then the spec changed to need 3 x16 slots anyway

    If a 5900X was available, I would have ordered one. But it wasn't. Just had to choose from what was in stock.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by kompukare View Post
    Need versus want.
    Mainly because I haven't upgraded for so long, I have some PC Upgrade-itis want, but very little need which means less electronic junk to eventually end up in landfill and that is surely a good thing.
    The problem is my build was not ideal. My motherboard went kaput,so instead of waiting until Zen2 which I wanted to do,I had to go Zen+ or CFL. The old system was a bit laggy in some things I ran,and the sound was cutting out,so pushed it as far as I could. I had been 7 years on my previous platform,so I don't like getting the platform wrong as I don't upgrade that often.

    So I got a stop-gap Zen+ CPU and more expensive motherboard than I specced up with Intel in anticipation of Zen2. However,Zen2 didn't really impress me as much and the Ryzen 7 3700X was over £300 at launch. So I expected by now it would be somewhat cheaper. Except it almost the same price,and still worse than the Core i7 I could have got in certain applications and games. You are talking some significant improvements in certain things I run.

    So performance with Zen+ was better than the ancient system but still not ideal,and the issue with Zen2/Zen3 pricing being so rubbish,it would have not cost me any extra(maybe even less) if I had just got a Core i7 8700/8700K back then,and I would have had two years of much better performance. Even for some of the very CPU limited games I have played for the last few years,a Core i7 8700K would be noticeably faster than even a Ryzen 7 3700X. Even a Core i7 6700K can be faster. I am talking about games which run at between 30~60FPS,and in some of the stuff I run such as PS,CFL is generally a faster CPU.

    So I have in some ways got onto a deadend platform in reality(due to being priced out),and not even got the performance I really wanted. I paid more for the motherboard in anticipation of the upgrade path over Intel(AM4 mini-ITX motherboards at the time were not cheap). I stay on a platform for between 5~7 years.I really don't want this Ryzen 5 2600 for another 2~3 years,and I refuse to pay £300 for a Ryzen 7 3700X.

    Next time I will just go with a decent CPU,and be done with it. Having an upgradeable platform only makes sense if it works out in cost. ATM,I could probably ditch what I have,and get a Core i5 10600K with a new motherboard,for less money than buying a CPU upgrade in the form of a Ryzen 5 5600X or Ryzen 7 3700X.

    Plus the issue is if the new trading arrangements were not happening next year I would wait,but you know what will happen with any issues with the ports,etc.....even higher pricing. Its going to get worse IMHO. Intel is also not going to be affected by having to make consoles,and apparently that is also eating into supply for desktop for 7NM products.

    The only hope we have left is that Rocketlake is any good,and apparently Intel is pulling the launch forward to January. That is the only way AMD will be forced to drop pricing,but I don't think it will do it,if they are selling everything they make,and the supply is a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanceswithUnix View Post
    Yep, I did look at that and between your posting and my looking (which wasn't that long I think) they were out. OFC in my comment I had linked to the wrong motherboard (I hate navigating their site!), and then the spec changed to need 3 x16 slots anyway

    If a 5900X was available, I would have ordered one. But it wasn't. Just had to choose from what was in stock.
    I kept forgetting to contact them and ask whether they would sell the CPU only to me. A Ryzen 9 3900 non-X actually would work well for my SFF system,but now its too late!
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 27-11-2020 at 09:32 PM.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by CAT-THE-FIFTH View Post
    AMD might be doing a bait and switch over RX6000 pricing:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk20IzZN-xk&t=596s

    HUB is not happy at all!!
    I've seen that accusation posted elsewhere but I don't really buy it vs plain old retailer/IAB scalping. Pricing the 6800XT $100 above the 3080 makes no sense if they actually want them to sell in volume once production ramps. This isn't to suggest AMD are being altruistic or something, it's just simple market dynamics - pricing considerably more than a similarly-performing competitor (which may be considered to have more marketing tickboxes) makes no sense.

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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    Quote Originally Posted by watercooled View Post
    I've seen that accusation posted elsewhere but I don't really buy it vs plain old retailer/IAB scalping. Pricing the 6800XT $100 above the 3080 makes no sense if they actually want them to sell in volume once production ramps. This isn't to suggest AMD are being altruistic or something, it's just simple market dynamics - pricing considerably more than a similarly-performing competitor (which may be considered to have more marketing tickboxes) makes no sense.
    I think AMD have done another RX480 move,where they had a limited number of reference cards at a fixed price to give the impression of an RRP. Its exactly what Nvidia are doing with the FE. It was the same with AMD and its Vega56 and Vega64 launch - they had a few cards at RRP. But the reality is outside those reference cards real pricing was much higher especially AIB ones,because they had to foot the full cost.

    In the end I come to the realisation,that at least for the immediate future,if you want an affordable gaming system....get a console. I mean even a Ryzen 7 3700X which is essentially the CPU in the consoles(well its technically a Renoir 8C) is nearly £300,and the Zen3 replacement is massively more expensive.

    The XBox GPU looks like a cutdown RX6800,and the RX6700XT is probably going to be a much slower 40CU part.

    How much is a reference 6800?? Around £550 IIRC. Even an RTX3070 is essentially £500 for the FE. Even an RTX3060TI is going to be at least £400. A Ryzen 7 3700X is nearly £300. Now add the cost of cheap B550 motherboard and 16GB of DDR4. Then,the cost of a 1TB PCI-E 4.0 SSD,and the case,PSU and Windows. Well over £1000 for a system which might about equal or slightly beat an XBox. I think honestly we will need to wait until the next refresh,for things to make some sense WRT to pricing.
    Last edited by CAT-THE-FIFTH; 27-11-2020 at 09:38 PM.


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    Re: AMD - Zen chitchat

    I need a low end machine for the office and saw an ad for A520. Who is that aimed at?

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