AMD - Zen chitchat

[rs4847]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UkG...ture=emb_title

Interesting and seems to mirror Zen2. Apparently Wendell says 2X16GB is the sweetspot.

Interesting, the 32GB (2x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX kit I just got is single ranked using Micron B-die according to Thaiphoon Burner. CMK32GX4M2D3600C18 ver 3.43



Not looking to push the kit hard as I need stability so just XMP enabled and it's working fine, might swap it out for a 64GB kit soon.

Anyway it's hard to describe just how good this upgrade is coming from a 3770k, going from a HDD to an SSD for the first time?

See you in 5 to 10 years Intel... Maybe.

[delpy8]

I'm at position 109 out of of 10k over all new Zen3 cpus I assume! I ordered the 5900x so fingers crossed I get it soon

[mulven]

Interesting, the 32GB (2x16GB) Corsair Vengeance LPX kit I just got is single ranked using Micron B-die according to Thaiphoon Burner. CMK32GX4M2D3600C18 ver 3.43



Not looking to push the kit hard as I need stability so just XMP enabled and it's working fine, might swap it out for a 64GB kit soon.

Anyway it's hard to describe just how good this upgrade is coming from a 3770k, going from a HDD to an SSD for the first time?

See you in 5 to 10 years Intel... Maybe.

I'm waiting for cyber monday / black friday to pick up the last few bits for my personal pc and I need 32gb (2x16gb) 3600 cl16-18 or 3200 cl14-16. It's frustrating when I can't find information on whether its dual rank or single rank. I am aware most 16gb sticks are dual rank but your post is an example that not all are.

Wish there was a proper list for this stuff

[k9wazere]

Long time lurker, weighing in on the forums for the first time. Joined the Scan queue for a 5900x, am 1000+ in the queue unfortunately. No rush for the build at least, so can wait. Just hoping for sometime this month if possible, anyone else as optimistic?

I'd expect the worst at this point, for a couple reasons. The rumour that some US retailers had told people they were back-ordered so badly people shouldn't expect their items until March 2021, and... some other rumours that various shops were expecting deliveries that never materialised.

I do wonder what the heck is going on, with so many different products now completely unavailable. I know Covid hasn't helped, but I don't (seem to) remember things being quite so bad with previous launches, that just about everything you could think of (PC and electronics related) is either OOS or massively inflated prices.

Strange times.

[kompukare]

I do wonder what the heck is going on, with so many different products now completely unavailable. I know Covid hasn't helped, but I don't (seem to) remember things being quite so bad with previous launches, that just about everything you could think of (PC and electronics related) is either OOS or massively inflated prices.

Strange times.

Obviously the ongoing Intel shortages was mainly about limited 14nm capacity mainly from being forced to release larger dies to compete with Ryzen.
Nvidia's 3000 series shortages seems to be issues with Samsung's 8nm and in some SKU's Micron's GDRR6x, plus possibly panicking about RDNA2 and the consoles making them release earlier than usual.
As for AMD, well while we don't know the details of the arrangements with Sony and Microsoft, we can guess that they are getting preferential treatment for wafers even if AMD could make far more profit selling Zen3.

BTW, CB report
https://www.computerbase.de/2020-11/...-overclocking/
the latest rumour has the Radeon 6800 non-XT ocerclocking to 2.5GHz and while drawing around 210W:

source being a user on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/CapFrameX/status...55421426937856
Will be interesting to see what reviewers get next Wednesday, and while software readings of GPU power are not the same as actual readings, even at stock clock 6800 should be a lot faster than RTX3070. Plus the 16GB vs the miserly 8GB on the 3070.

[k9wazere]

Yeah I hope the VRAM stinginess from nV bites them on the ass, hard

[watercooled]

Why would you hope that? GDDR6X is expensive, made by one manufacturer, uses a fair amount of power (I think doubling the memory would have needed twice the ICs as they're already using max density, but not 100% on that without looking it up), and requiring more would worsen the already tight stock issue if the rumours are true about it being partly down to memory supply. There are only certain multiples of VRAM that make sense for a certain bus width, so you end up with 10GB or 20GB for a 320b card like the 3080.

I would expect GDDR6X to be somewhere around $15 per GB (just a ballpark estimate based on some GDDR6 prices). Adding another 10GB would add another $150 or so to the base price. If they intend to keep margins the same, consider for a second where that would leave retail pricing of the cards...

[DanceswithUnix]

I would expect GDDR6X to be somewhere around $15 per GB (just a ballpark estimate based on some GDDR6 prices). Adding another 10GB would add another $150 or so to the base price. If they intend to keep margins the same, consider for a second where that would leave retail pricing of the cards...

Wow, so HBM2 would have been cheaper and used less power? Funny old world... (guessing from how Vega VII wasn't that far from 3070 pricing and had 16GB)

[kompukare]

Why would you hope that? GDDR6X is expensive, made by one manufacturer, uses a fair amount of power (I think doubling the memory would have needed twice the ICs as they're already using max density, but not 100% on that without looking it up), and requiring more would worsen the already tight stock issue if the rumours are true about it being partly down to memory supply. There are only certain multiples of VRAM that make sense for a certain bus width, so you end up with 10GB or 20GB for a 320b card like the 3080.

I would expect GDDR6X to be somewhere around $15 per GB (just a ballpark estimate based on some GDDR6 prices). Adding another 10GB would add another $150 or so to the base price. If they intend to keep margins the same, consider for a second where that would leave retail pricing of the cards...

Not disputing any of that, but surely it is all Nvidia's fault for making GA102 a 320 / 384 design and GA104 (RTX3070 a 256 design).
Usually, 102 cards are the Ti and Titan, but somehow (possibly by cheapening out with Samsung's 8nm process) this time Nvidia moved the whole stack by one card. On the Ti and Titan, being forced to use GDDR6X would hardly matter.
Oh, and since RTX3070 is 256 bit and uses normal GDDR6 doubling the RAM would cost Nvidia exactly the same as AMD and Navi21.

[watercooled]

Wow, so HBM2 would have been cheaper and used less power? Funny old world... (guessing from how Vega VII wasn't that far from 3070 pricing and had 16GB)

Different profit margins so it's hard to compare.

You don't have to look far to find GDDR6 pricing online, and it would be unreasonable to expect GDDR6X to be cheaper, so I don't think $15 would be a bad ballpark. Even if we say $10 (cheaper than GDDR6) - same story.

I wonder how much HBM2 packaging impacts packaging yields, or if they might run into capacity issues with the massive interposers for high volume cards? It is notably absent from consumer GPUs now.

Not disputing any of that, but surely it is all Nvidia's fault for making GA102 a 320 / 384 design and GA104 (RTX3070 a 256 design).
Usually, 102 cards are the Ti and Titan, but somehow (possibly by cheapening out with Samsung's 8nm process) this time Nvidia moved the whole stack by one card. On the Ti and Titan, being forced to use GDDR6X would hardly matter.
Oh, and since RTX3070 is 256 bit and uses normal GDDR6 doubling the RAM would cost Nvidia exactly the same as AMD and Navi21.

Making the 102 into the 3080 could have been due to competitive pressure if you believe the rumours.

Nvidia probably just figured that was an appropriate amount of memory bandwidth to feed each GPU.

Regarding the 3070, I can't see them having 16GB on that card and 10GB on the 3080, can you?

And again, something has to give, either margins or RRP. What do you reckon Nvidia would rather change?

[kalniel]

Regarding the 3070, I can't see them having 16GB on that card and 10GB on the 3080, can you?

How about 12GB on the 3060 and 10 on the 3080

I think the 3080 will end up with 20GB eventually though.

[kompukare]

See both AT and CB report that the ASRock have released the first beta Zen3 BIOSes for B450:
https://www.computerbase.de/2020-11/...00-zen-3-b450/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16260...-now-available
Although AT has this at the end of their article
"Update: it would appear that some of these BIOSes have already been pulled from the ASRock website, for reasons unclear."
However, I tried the links from CB and they seemed be still working. Plus (at least for the the B450M Pro4 I chose at random), their website still lists it too:
https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B450M%20Pro4/#BIOS

[Millenialwithsky]

I'd expect the worst at this point, for a couple reasons. The rumour that some US retailers had told people they were back-ordered so badly people shouldn't expect their items until March 2021, and... some other rumours that various shops were expecting deliveries that never materialised.

I do wonder what the heck is going on, with so many different products now completely unavailable. I know Covid hasn't helped, but I don't (seem to) remember things being quite so bad with previous launches, that just about everything you could think of (PC and electronics related) is either OOS or massively inflated prices.

Strange times.

Looking at the Scan Product Launch page there's more RTX cards at an individual SKU level coming in than all Ryzen 500 SKUs put together. Overclockers have had only a handful of units come in. Something's definitely up is supply is worse than Nvidia given this CPU should be much easier to manufacture than an entire card.

[easyrider]

I'm at position 109 out of of 10k over all new Zen3 cpus I assume! I ordered the 5900x so fingers crossed I get it soon

I so want one now!

[DanceswithUnix]

See both AT and CB report that the ASRock have released the first beta Zen3 BIOSes for B450:
https://www.computerbase.de/2020-11/...00-zen-3-b450/
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16260...-now-available
Although AT has this at the end of their article
"Update: it would appear that some of these BIOSes have already been pulled from the ASRock website, for reasons unclear."
However, I tried the links from CB and they seemed be still working. Plus (at least for the the B450M Pro4 I chose at random), their website still lists it too:
https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/B450M%20Pro4/#BIOS

So at this rate I might get an X470 bios before I have a chance of getting my hands on a 5000 series CPU. I'm not sure that makes me happy

[easyrider]

So at this rate I might get an X470 bios before I have a chance of getting my hands on a 5000 series CPU. I'm not sure that makes me happy

Nice....! You know you wanna!