Petition: Abolish faith schools (UK) |

[kalniel]

60 SECONDS: Richard Dawkins


http://richarddawkins.net/article,12...ichard-Dawkins

Can you summarise what he says there about faith schools?

[Merlin4458]

Parent should be responsible for teaching their kids moral values, not schools, they should jsut be enforcing it.
Schools should be there to teach you skills for life, so u can get a job essentially. Religion is basically some joker back in the day that thought it would be call to make something up, and through years of chinese whispers millions and millions of people are religious with slightly different beleifs around the world, which have been edited different by chinese whispers. Their is 0 fact in religion so why teach it to people at school, when u oculd be spending more time teaching these children to write instead of letting them become dyslexic...

[G4Z]

Because unfortunately, my intellectual tools, logic and reason, suggest that whether its right to fund faith schools is a non-issue. And I am not even a believer of god(s).

Well ok then, why don't you give me a good logical reason why the taxpayer should pay for faith schools to indoctrinate our young people (bear in mind that could include, a Church of the FSM school or a school of Scientology).

[StoX]

..............

So your children won't have a Christmas, Santa, or a tooth fairy, how mean!

[usxhe190]

Well ok then, why don't you give me a good logical reason why the taxpayer should pay for faith schools to indoctrinate our young people (bear in mind that could include, a Church of the FSM school or a school of Scientology).

On the taxpayer point.

Because there is a section of the taxpayer wants faith based schools
Just like a section of the taxpayer who wants roads in northern England. Or police officers in south-eastern England. Or the internet in rural areas of England. If there is enough Scientology people, I am sure it will get funded as well. Just like Christian churches, after Roman Catholics took over Paganism in England.

edit - and even FSM school even though it was created as a joke

On the young people point.

Sure a young person studying religion will know more about that religion. Whether they believe it is another thing - look at kalniel. Catholic and then not Catholic. Look at Jessica Alba. Same thing.

Studying religion when you are young is the same as going to a football match with your dad who is devoted to football. you will accept it when you accept it.

just my thoughts though

[Rhyth]

Can you summarise what he says there about faith schools?

I think the whole document has already been expressed in a particularly concise form kalniel. I offer the information and the freedom to digest as you see fit.

[G4Z]

On the taxpayer point.

Because there is a section of the taxpayer wants faith based schools
Just like a section of the taxpayer who wants roads in northern England. Or police officers in south-eastern England. Or the internet in rural areas of England. If there is enough Scientology people, I am sure it will get funded as well. Just like Christian churches, after Roman Catholics took over Paganism in England.

edit - and even FSM school even though it was created as a joke

Ok, there are a proportion of taxpayers that want it, that does not explain why you think its right to do so. What exactly do you think the intended purpose of education is?

Would also make the point as made by ajbrun earlier that there are probably plenty of people who pay tax and would like racisim to be taught in schools, white supremacists, BNP and others, do you think its right that we fund that? Is that what education is for?

[usxhe190]

Ok, there are a proportion of taxpayers that want it, that does not explain why you think its right to do so. What exactly do you think the intended purpose of education is?

Actually, to be honest, I don't know what the intended purpose of education. I mean I can't remember all my biology classes. Or my maths. Or my english literature. I guess, vaguely, it can be about learning many things...? the results of people in my school (non-religious) after reunions shows - religious people, people in jail, people in drugs, good people, bad people, rich people, smart people, ignorant people...such a variety...

Ironically, education was actually founded by religion.

Anyways, how can knowing more about religion be a bad thing?

It is knowing LESS about something that makes people worst I think...

If a parent wants their kid to know more about a particular religion - good for them. Just like if a parent pushes their kids to go to a performing arts school - good for them. Whether that kid actually likes it or believes in it, it is another matter. Would that kid start to steal, kill, bomb, getting ASBO orders? Who knows...

[G4Z]

Maybe you should go and work out what you think and of course find out what other rational people think education is for before you take a position on this eh?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education - I posted this before and its probably a good place to start.

[usxhe190]

Maybe you should go and work out what you think and of course find out what other rational people think education is for before you take a position on this eh?

Thanks for getting on the high horse but I have read that link before.

edit - like I said, learning more about a religion is nothing bad. just like telling my nephew there is a santa claus when I gave him a present.

[G4Z]

You just admitted you do not know what education is for, you clearly have no intention of finding out so until you do I am through debating with you.

[explicitlyrics]

The overriding point IMO is that removing state school would do an ENORMOUS amount of damage to British education systems.

I know plenty of people who pretended to be religious in order to go to a churchy school because it was the best school in the area. My girlfriend is a prime example, though her school never taught any more religious stuff than most other schools I know. If you want to accuse the churchy schools of being better because they are selective then fine, but there is no doubt that it resulted in a better education for her. Removing churchy schools would be exactly like the removal of selective grammar schools, a complete disaster for teaching standards in the UK.

For the record I am one of the least religious people I have ever met.

[kalniel]

Sure a young person studying religion will know more about that religion. Whether they believe it is another thing - look at kalniel. Catholic and then not Catholic. Look at Jessica Alba. Same thing.

Actually that wasn't me (though the thought of having something in common with Jessica Alba is always a nice one ). I hadn't mentioned my own circumstances, but basically I went into a 'faith school' as an atheist, from an atheist family, and came out an atheist.

Many years later in my life I became Christian. Did the CoE school plant the seeds in my head for that? Who knows - it certainly didn't do anything at the time and I enjoyed learning about Christianity (and other faiths, btw) including debating some of the inconsistances with the religion, as I saw it.

The majority of my friends from the school remain atheist.

[usxhe190]

Sorry kalniel, my fault, so hard to multitask

some of my friends had the same background - atheist and then christian
some were christian and then athesit

edit - irony is people that didn't go to religious schools are most vocal against them...with the hidden meaning of "we must save the children"...

G4Z, no need to reply since you dont want to but I don't know what education is because it is very hard to define.

Even your wiki link states this "Education encompasses teaching and learning specific skills, and also something less tangible but more profound: the imparting of knowledge, positive judgment and well-developed wisdom."

From this thread I see that you think education is for "creating good little consumers that hopefully have some sort of basic language and practical skills so they can join the workforce". Our current education system does not do this 100%. It also gives you the second more intanglible point. That is why we read Shakespeare, or something that will not lead to any joining of the workforce.

[usxhe190]

I know plenty of people who pretended to be religious in order to go to a churchy school because it was the best school in the area.

Yep, I know lots of people like that as well...the irony is, many of those "young impressionable" kids stayed atheist...funny that...when we are all here so scared those young kids are getting brainwashed with wrong facts...

[Lucio]

You just admitted you do not know what education is for, you clearly have no intention of finding out so until you do I am through debating with you.

One question, did you actually attend a faith school or are you just arguing because you think something, in your non-experience, is wrong?

I refer you back to my previous comments that faith schools aren't about indoctrination or indeed forcing "religious myths" into children's brains. The people who I know attended faith schools were taught the same subjects in the same way and the only real difference was that they went to morning prayer and RE (which covered all religions) was a mandatory subject up till GCSE years.

It's not a big deal, they're not a whole lot different from normal schools and they're catering to a subset of society. You simply cannot say that this particular subset should be denied their options, that leads to intolerance and hatred. Personally, I think religion is a load of crap, but I'd still consider sending my child to a faith school if it had the best results in the league tables!