Christians - A Penny For Your Thoughts.

[kalniel]

I'd like the theists to tell us who created god. Their only answer can be "we don't know".

Well are you going to give us a chance to answer or would you just like to put words in our mouths? The correct answer from my perspective is 'no-one', as I've already said. I know this thread is quite long, but please do take the time to read it as it saves it from getting even longer with repeated questions and answers.

This is all the atheists are saying with the universe. There are something we still don't know about how the universe work, and some things we may never know. This doesn't mean we should say that the supernatural caused everything when there's no actual physical proof for it, except peoples beliefs.

I don't know anyone who is saying that something spiritual created the universe just because we don't know everything. As I said in an earlier post - the 'need' for god is no reason for there to be a god.

[joshwa]

this made me laugh: (and is vaguely related)
http://harolds-planet.blogspot.com/2...ed-in-bud.html

[madad2005]

I don't know anyone who is saying that something spiritual created the universe just because we don't know everything. As I said in an earlier post - the 'need' for god is no reason for there to be a god.

Well said. Like in theoretical physics, when something can't be explained or proved via experiment or mathematics, a theory will develop to fill the hole, and will stick till something more plausible comes along or is completely disproved. Unfortunately, as far as the human psyche is concerned, the concept of God keeps a lot of people warm during dark nights. I'm happy for them, as long as they don't chastise me for being an atheist.

[JPreston]

@ christians, have a word with yourselves and when you have settled the question of whether or not a majority of you speak in tongues and drink strychnine with any regularity have a look at these videos and tell me what you think - a bona fide miracle?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Sq-YUdq1OI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DylNVUN_3I


No not the face of our lord appearing on a toasted sandwich this time* but Derren Brown performing miraculous instant conversions on a roomful of atheists, to show the power of suggestion (on americans at least) and group behaviour. Just think - if only he was really on your side what a better place the world be...?




*and a second question, why does this keep happening?

[JPreston]

...Unfortunately, as far as the human psyche is concerned, the concept of God keeps a lot of people warm during dark nights. I'm happy for them, as long as they don't chastise me for being an atheist.

Ah but I think we need to stand up for ourselves because their delusions are threatening us all in very real ways:

An arch-conservative cardinal chosen by the Pope to deliver this year’s Lenten meditations to the Vatican hierarchy has caused consternation by giving warning of an Antichrist who is “a pacifist, ecologist and ecumenist”.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle1459003.ece

The Reverend Jerry Falwell says global warming is "Satan's attempt to redirect the church's primary focus" from evangelism to environmentalism...Falwell said the Bible teaches that God will maintain the Earth until Jesus returns

http://www.wdbj7.com/Global/story.as...40669&nav=S6aK

Oh and they are also very fond of cervical cancer:

A new vaccine sparks controversy

“THE governor's action seems to signify that God's moral law regarding sex outside of marriage can be transgressed without consequence.” Those words came this week from Rick Scarborough of Vision America, a Christian lobbying group. The US Pastor Council and various Republican politicians have piled in too...

http://www.economist.com/world/na/di...ory_id=8677214

Not to mention AIDS in sub-saharan africa, segregation in faith schools, Bush's christian crusade, islamic fundamentalism, israel, a nuclear iran, etc etc.

If they could keep their beliefs to themselves, they might be harmless. But religious groups are becoming increasingly shrill and uppity, and if we don't make a stand for our post-Enlightenment, post-Rennaissance and post-Reformation values they will eventually drag us into a new Dark Age.

Churchill said an appeaser is someone who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat them last...

[autopilot]

Ah but I think we need to stand up for ourselves because their delusions are threatening us all in very real ways...

Best post of the thread IMO.

[Kezzer]

Best post of the thread IMO.

Atheist opinions are equally as delusional though

[ajbrun]

Atheist opinions are equally as delusional though

What is it that all atheists are delusional about, may I ask?

[Hans Voralberg]

Atheist opinions are equally as delusional though

And please, have some sound argument once in a while if you're gonna say science.

[JPreston]

What is it that all atheists are delusional about, may I ask?

We're delusional, because we don't hear the same voices he hears in his head


I find it interesting that instead of thinking about any of the stupid and harmful religious campaigns I mentioned in my post, he chose to key in solely onto my use of the word 'delusion'. On what day did god create chat-bots?

Whichever side of the fence you sit on - the atheist side, or the crazy babbling side - have a look at this vile and bigoted site and tell me if there is anything positive it has to offer society:

http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/

And before any apologist says they are an inconsequential minority, they did manage to organise 40k+ signatures banning Jerry Springer the Opera (here's an idea - if you think something will offend you don't pay bloody £40 to go and see it....not that any of them did anyway). To Britain's everlasting shame, that's about 50% more signatures than the govt petition against ID cards received .

Maybe someone will provide a link to an equally rabid atheist organisation, but I don't think there are any. If there was, I'd have joined it by now (but you never know so post a link and my cheque will be in the post tomorrow). The best we can do is the British Humanist Association, with their radical demands for an occasional spot on 'Thought for the Day'...

[kalniel]

Personally I don't think being religious or not has any relation to the negative effects or not on society. Sure, there are some extreme elements that go out of their way to negatively affect other people, but why judge all religious people by the actions of a minority?

I find the actions of extreme members of the ALF to be inhumane, offensive, and a complete scourge on society. But just because they aren't a religious group I don't go around assuming all atheists have a negative effect on society.

[nichomach]

As far as the website posted is concerned, I dislike intensely the homophobia and religious intolerance espoused by the site. It may well be true that 40,000 people signed the petition regarding Jerry Springer, The Opera; it would however be a logical error to, by extension, state that all those 40,000 people support the other positions taken by this site. If the road pricing petition had been put up by someone who later turned out to be a supporter of the BNP, would that mean that 2 million people supported the BNP?

[Kezzer]

And please, have some sound argument once in a while if you're gonna say science.

Sorry, I haven't seen any sound arguments coming from the opposing side of the argument either apart from "this theory says...". Which of course proves everything to me.

[Kezzer]

What is it that all atheists are delusional about, may I ask?

Your complete faith in theoretical science. And just as my previous post, I'd like to emphasise the word "theoretical"

[Alex]

Look, I'll tell you what's delusional - forming opinions about a belief system based on a few of it's craziest followers. Much though Christian fundamentalism can lead to those sort of thoughts, fundamentalist atheist can lead to the sort of thinking espoused by Nietze, and the rise of the 3rd Reich, the need for an Aryan race.

Just because there a re a few people that need stopping does not necessitate stopping the whole belief system, and it is grossly wrong to say that it does. You will find crazy, stupid, and dangerous people regardless of what belief system or political ideology you look into.

[TeePee]

Your complete faith in theoretical science. And just as my previous post, I'd like to emphasise the word "theoretical"

That shows a lack of understanding of what science is. Science is simply a method, and there's nothing theorietical about that. Scientists aren't required to have 'faith' in any theories this method produces, since a theory by it's nature is supported by evidence, proof or logic, and can be refuted.

Do some reading about the scientific method, and you'll soon see a difference between scientific theories and religious doctrine.