Christians - A Penny For Your Thoughts.

[TeePee]

I think we have pretty much the same opinion on this. Morality is separate from religion or atheism. Some religions have a good moral code, but morality itself comes from the person.

Blaming the attrocities in Stalin's Russia on atheism would be like blaming the war in Iraq on christianity. I wouldn't blame every atrocity on religion. But there are some things, like specific holy wars, or Jihads which are largely a religious issue. But they are mainly historical, when religion had more say (or a more open say) in politics.

I recognise that it's easy to attack the extremists. Richard Dawkins in his documentary interviewed Ted Haggard, a fellow who would certainly fit the description of extremist in Britain. However, before his fall, Ted Haggard was head of the National Association of Evangelicals, a 40 million strong organisation. Atheists tend to pitch their arguments against the massive fundamentalist movement in the US, ignoring the more moderate christians both in the UK and abroad. But that's because it's the fundamentalist movement which is so dangerous.

[nichomach]

Personally, I look with considerable alarm at the extent to which the religious right-wing has gained traction within US government circles. I mean, as an Anglican I have no objection to the disestablishment of the CofE, so you can imagine how I view the stuff which is I'd argue tantamount to an ongoing First Amendment breach in the US.

I wouldn't go so far as to say that morality is separate from religion (I hope that my morality is very much informed by my faith!), but I would say it is a distinct issue from the simple question of whether God (or gods) exists. On the historical point, I think there's a lot of froing and toing. How much was religion the inspiration, and how much was it used as a convenient justification for action inspired by other motives, and so forth; that said, we could go around the houses on that one for days. I'd be very happy to accept that it was a major factor in the process be it as motivation or sophistic justification. I tend to the view that if it hadn't been there, some other justification would have been found, however.

[kalniel]

Personally, I look with considerable alarm at the extent to which the religious right-wing has gained traction within US government circles. I mean, as an Anglican I have no objection to the disestablishment of the CofE, so you can imagine how I view the stuff which is I'd argue tantamount to an ongoing First Amendment breach in the US.

Same here.

[Bazzlad]

Show me the 'valid' points I ignored.

You joined this thread on page 14, rehashed a couple of things stated in previous pages in your first post, and then said something that was just plain wrong. I showed you to be wrong, and your following posts are just whining.

Alex has a valid argument, so I'll until you think of something, I'm going to ignore you, and talk to the adults.

I was quite active in this thread from when I joined, unfortunately and, as earlier stated I have had to travel to New York and sort out some visa issues so I'll leave you to play with the adults until I get back and actually have some time to decipher your drivel.

[Kezzer]

Well I'm currently on holiday if you're wondering why I haven't been posting as much

It's a shame we can't have a religion versus atheism debate without some kind of abuse being thrown back and forth between posts. I believe the majority of us discussing the subject in this thread are adults right? And surely despite what background we come from we are aware of respect right? And this is the "friendly and nice" hexus forum is it not?

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, it's very easy to get wound up when your faith is being knocked, and I too am guilty of some kind of bitterness within this thread.

I wish everyone would just conclude that you're not going to prove anything despite what people say. We all have faith in our own fields, and each one of us will try to "enlighten" one another based on their own beliefs.

Science has faith in things like the Big Bang, Christians has faith in God and as kalniel stated earlier; if faith were provable, then the very meaning of the word would be void.

[Akira]

post removed.

[Moby-Dick]

Akira - posting your own opinion as fact without actually reading the thread is trolling. Don't do it again please.

[Akira]

No problem, sorry for posting my opinion, would it help if I added IMHO? The thread is enormous, how many folks have time to read something this enormous but would still like to offer their opinion? Anyway, my apologies for breaking the rules...

Also, I did qualify my not reading the entire thread.

[Moby-Dick]

but its the very fact that you couldn't be bothered to read the thread thats the problem in the whole place.

A good rule of thumb is never post anything online that you wouldn't say in a crowded public place at the top of your voices.

Would you walk in the middle of someones conversation and say I've not been listening to what you've said , but heres my opinion anyway ? Its not really done.


Anyways - telling off complete , I'll leave you to read the thread , you may need a strong cup of coffee

[Akira]

Lol, thanks for the wisdom oh mighty, well travelled one, I'll have that cuppa and dive in

Thanks,

Akira.

[JPreston]

From the american version of Wife Swap....I bring you....Marguerite Perrin...God Warrior!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B9Gl...elated&search=



Greeeeeaaaaat.

[Akira]

I don't think you are a follower of Athiesm, so much as you see it as the only reasonable explination of the world around us. It offers proof, reason and logic, or at least attempts to.

Athiesm is - here is how things are, and here is the proof that this is how things are. (Or here is an explanation that is not just stated, but explained)

Religion is - here is how things are, and here is a song about a little donkey! Lets all sing about the donkey! It carried Mary on a dusty road! Praise the Lord!

Spot the subtle difference?

I have to say that I told a Greek Catholic once (we were renting his villa) that I was an Atheist... he went completely barmy! He asked me if I knew that Atheist comes from the Greek meaning *Against or Anti Christ* I told him I wasn't against Christ per se but that I was doubtful that he was the son of an almighty God, perhaps merely a first century version of Paul Daniels.

After much gnashing of teeth and rage I changed my position to one of agnostic (more to placate our host than anything else) which we then shouted about for an hour (we were very drunk on his home-made booze).

I learnt a few very important lessons that night:

1. Never mistake Jesus for Paul Daniels, sozzled mediterranean folks simply don't like it

2. Simply NEVER discuss religion or politics with anybody in the mediterranean, especially if you're sharing a bevvy with them

3. I thought much more about things and decided that I'm a Deist!

Yep, that was a wacky holiday alright

If folks can just stop getting angry about religion, and live and let live, it'd all be good Sadly though, it often isn't religion that causes trouble - it's us crazy humans and our own 'interpretations' of it!

Thanks Stewart for starting this thread, as Moby suggested, reading it really has been 'enlightening'.

[Steve B]

stewarts about to mention satan... *runs*
nobody listen to him, he's drunk!

[Stewart]

I'm only a bit drunk.

What I was going to say, apart from your my besht mate you are Jesus, is:

OMFG... Satan!

I'd like to know what our Christian members think about old nick.

Do you fear him? Seeing as you all seem to accept that some parts of the Bible are literal and some not, where do you stand on this?

The Devil is real, he resides in Hell, he is the source of all evil, etc?

I thought he'd have come up in the thread, to be honest, seeing as he is the anti-Christ.

What about Satanists? Deluded, or is worshiping Satan as valid as worshiping God, if you accept, as a Christian, that both exist?

[Moby-Dick]

Thanks Stewart for starting this thread, as Moby suggested, reading it really has been 'enlightening'.

woo my quote for people taking my advice is full for this month

If have thought that beliving in some form of 'anti-god' woudl be quite important to beliving in god ? Logic would say that how can you see light if you've never seen dark ?

[Steve B]

one cannot have order without chaos