Fortress Europe!!!

[andybasford]

the vast majority of immigrants around here DON'T work and therefore sponge money from our taxes.

It has been explained why this is not true but you didn't seem to want to listen and got aggressive.

Why is it only the UK that seems to have such a big problem? Why are we such a walkover? Everyone knows it's a free ride into our country... makes me sick.

This also was refuted by DaBeenster who provides backup to his comments which you denounce as BS.

I think these are the root cause of the flaming. You don't come across as a compassionate conservative to be honest.

[Allen]

But you've spewed a whole lot of rubbish associating immigrants with everything from rising crime (BTW, the largest independent study of criminal activity in the UK is the British Crime Survey, and that doesn't go by police reports, it surveys peoples' actual experience of crime, and that's shown either stable levels or a FALL in crime for every year since about 1989, although peoples' FEAR of crime has increased) to funding shortages in public services (like, that couldn't be anything to do with the good and concerned electorate voting for whichever party promised them income tax cuts, could it? See post above...).

Don't expect to vent that sort of rubbish without people objecting to it; it's tabloid claptrap, making immigrants the new folk devils instead of single mothers, or terror-teens, or whatever the Mail, or the Express or the Sun or the Star decides to get it's knickers in a twist over this year to boost their circulation figures.

I don't read tabloid crap. I talk to real people who see and know wjat's going on in the area around me. I didn't say about immigrants increasing crime levels, that was about kids/teenagers in my area in another thread.

My reference earlier about crime levels was that why don't the government spend more money on helping people in the UK first, then we can all be in a situation to help out those less fortunate than us.

[Allen]

It has been explained why this is not true but you didn't seem to want to listen and got aggressive.

Do you live round here? Do you know lots of people who do who have the same views about this subject? Most of my views are based on what happened where I live, not the whole country. Providing me with statistics for the whole country is not what I wanna see. And I got aggresive when I was insulted and my views were thrown back in my face.

This also was refuted by DaBeenster who provides backup to his comments which you denounce as BS.

I think these are the root cause of the flaming. You don't come across as a compassionate conservative to be honest.

As I said before, you can't always believe everything you read on the Net, DaBeeeenster does. I can't possibly provide you with links for what happens around here, it's probably not documented on the net. But just because it's not documented on the net, does that mean it doesn't happen? No!

[nichomach]

I don't read tabloid crap. I talk to real people who see and know wjat's going on in the area around me. I didn't say about immigrants increasing crime levels, that was about kids/teenagers in my area in another thread.

My reference earlier about crime levels was that why don't the government spend more money on helping people in the UK first, then we can all be in a situation to help out those less fortunate than us.

Ahem...

I blooming agree, Skii! I'm not racist either, but I think it's about time our government put OUR people first for once. Children living on the streets, elderly people living in fear with high crime and homelessness/unemployment on the rise (government figures are BS, just look around you!). Andy, the vast majority of immigrants around here DON'T work and therefore sponge money from our taxes.

At the very least you created the association by putting it into a thread about immigration...or why mention it here at all?

I notice that even though I refer to probably the best authority on actual levels of crime in England and Wales, you STILL don't seem to accept that this "rising crime" is largely a fiction. Some types of crime HAVE increased, though; affray, assault...and guess what? They're most commonly committed by drunk white British men.

On the tax front, you've been answered, but don't seem willing to accept that either.

As I said before, you can't always believe everything you read on the Net, DaBeeeenster does.

No, he tends to rely upon sources with a somewhat better record for accuracy than "what my mate told me down the pub". I'm sorry, Al, I'm not being personally insulting here, but it's pretty clear that even if YOU don't read tabloid crap, the people you rely upon for your information do.

I'm afraid I have to agree with andybasford's assessment.

[andybasford]

Do you live round here? Do you know lots of people who do who have the same views about this subject? Most of my views are based on what happened where I live, not the whole country. Providing me with statistics for the whole country is not what I wanna see. And I got aggresive when I was insulted and my views were thrown back in my face.

And yet you were quite happy to extrapolate your experience in your local area to the whole country by saying all immigrants are spongers. Why would you do that considering you are so keen to stress these are only your local problems.

As I said before, you can't always believe everything you read on the Net, DaBeeeenster does. I can't possibly provide you with links for what happens around here, it's probably not documented on the net. But just because it's not documented on the net, does that mean it doesn't happen? No!

As DaBeenster pointed out, he believes stuff that comes from multiple reliable sources

[Allen]

Fine, that's up to you. And it's up to me what I believe.

[revol68]

so everyone can go around believing that the tooth fairy exists?? grow up please this is a stupid debate on an internet forum but for plenty of people the immigration legislation that people like u push for has very real consequences. u can't defend ur views and so hide behind irrationalism and some twisted logic of freedom of speech.

[DaBeeeenster]

My reference earlier about crime levels was that why don't the government spend more money on helping people in the UK first, then we can all be in a situation to help out those less fortunate than us.

The UK is the fourth richest nation on the planet. We live a lifestyle unimaginable to 50% of the world population and unattainable to 75% of it. We can afford to help.

[DaBeeeenster]

As I said before, you can't always believe everything you read on the Net, DaBeeeenster does. I can't possibly provide you with links for what happens around here, it's probably not documented on the net. But just because it's not documented on the net, does that mean it doesn't happen? No!

Please do not speak for me. I can do so myself thank you very much. I do not believe "everything I read on the net". I trust the BBC and the Office of National Statistics. If you have a problem with that, fine, but I'd advise you not to put words into other people's mouths again.

[Allen]

The UK is the fourth richest nation on the planet. We live a lifestyle unimaginable to 50% of the world population and unattainable to 75% of it. We can afford to help.

Maybe, but I still believe that we have too many problems in our country to sort out... but yet again, you guys are just continuously throwing back my thoughts in my face and not even listening to them, so why should I bother continuing with this conversation.

[DaBeeeenster]

Throwing your thoughts back in your face? It's called debate mate. If you dont like it, you are free to not post here.

[Allen]

Please do not speak for me. I can do so myself thank you very much. I do not believe "everything I read on the net". I trust the BBC and the Office of National Statistics. If you have a problem with that, fine, but I'd advise you not to put words into other people's mouths again.

You're just being plain stupid now, threatening people over the net does nothing...

And how was that speaking for you? You're the one who keeps asking for links and saying 'Google knows nothing about this piece of news'

[Allen]

Throwing your thoughts back in your face? It's called debate mate. If you dont like it, you are free to not post here.

Firstly, don't call me mate.

Secondly, you gave me your views and told me where you got them from, which I gave you reasons which I didn't believe because I see it differently with my own eyes, not what's written by journalists.

Thirdly, I gave you my reasons and where I get them from and all I get is insulted, called a liar and people trying to prove I'm wrong with statistics and links which totally go against what I see and hear in RL.

[nichomach]

You're just being plain stupid now, threatening people over the net does nothing...

Eh? What threat?

And how was that speaking for you? You're the one who keeps asking for links and saying 'Google knows nothing about this piece of news'

Well, you see he likes to actually see some evidence when people make blanket assertions; a curious quirk, but one which I happen to share...


By the way, I would like to state that the Moon IS made of green cheese (I don't care what NASA brought back, they obviously faked it, and it looks like cheese to me), the Earth IS hollow (Bulwer Lytton was right), reason being there's this patch on my floor which sounds hollow when I walk over it, core samples be damned, and I'm planning to take a walk through those secret tunnel thingies, so my next post'll be from Tibet...

[DaBeeeenster]

You're just being plain stupid now, threatening people over the net does nothing...

And how was that speaking for you? You're the one who keeps asking for links and saying 'Google knows nothing about this piece of news'

Methinks you need to check who moderates this forum

[Allen]

Eh? What threat?

I'd advise you not to put words into other people's mouths again. Sounded like a small threat to me...

Well, you see he likes to actually see some evidence when people make blanket assertions; a curious quirk, but one which I happen to share...

How can you say that what I see going on around me is a blanket assertion? It's local knowledge! And I believe that more than anything I'd read in the papers and such other crap.