Muslim Youths

[j1979]

Ridiculing 'religious people' or those that to believe in God, is just going to encourage hatred, and promote segregation. If people wish to believe in a particular religion or God, then I find nothing wrong with that, as long as they are not forcing them down people’s throats.

Questioning, and debating their beliefs in a respectful manner is fine, making fun and ridiculing them is not.

debating beliefs are pritty pointless ive found. Its ok to make fun of the insane man that thinks hes a chicken. But not religion ?

it is fine to make fun of people that believe something without any proof.. man is a compulsive liar, i i want proof before i believe anything, and there is no proof.

"Man is certainly stark mad: he cannot make a worm, yet he will make gods by the dozen." ~ M Montaigne

[j1979]

Oh the irony.

ive asked you to provide one tiny bit of evidence, but you cant! you believe a science fiction book to be true.

[zoomee]

The ONLY proof you need is the Qu'ran j1979. Anyone who has read it completely can not disagree that no man alive could have written it and its miracles are still amazing science to this day!

And before you start belittling it - just like you have so far any post where someone's belief is in a creator - Have you even read it? I doubt it very much. Even if you had - I bet my life on the fact you don't understand it - which is why you refer to religious scriptures as fairy tale's. If it wasnt for religion you would not have the advancements that we have in this day and age - Look into your history books and you will clearly see what religion has brought to this world.

Just like you have good and bad agnostics/atheists - the same applies to those who believe in god, Religion is NOT to blame for the worlds bads - its those people who interpret it wrong (and as such are in a minority)

Let me put it another way for those that are statistically(!) minded - 2/3rd's of this planet believe in a religion, That remainder 1/3rd consists of agnostics and atheists - even atheists believe there is a higher power. That makes the agnostics the minority.

So please stop making this into a personal argument - This thread is about an 'alleged' requirement for muslim state-backed schools - Not about whether or not god exists - I'm sure you can make up your own thread, but I doubt you'd be willing to do that fearing the backlash you would get from all religious types

[j1979]

The ONLY proof you need is the Qu'ran j1979. Anyone who has read it completely can not disagree that no man alive could have written it and its miracles are still amazing science to this day!

And before you start belittling it - just like you have so far any post where someone's belief is in a creator - Have you even read it? I doubt it very much. Even if you had - I bet my life on the fact you don't understand it - which is why you refer to religious scriptures as fairy tale's.

So please stop making this into a personal argument - This thread is about an 'alleged' requirement for muslim state-backed schools - Not about whether or not god exists - I'm sure you can make up your own thread, but I doubt you'd be willing to do that fearing the backlash you would get from all religious types

ok to the original point, Science fiction has no place in schools when passed off as fact.

we might as well teach star was as fact.

and no i wont read it unless someone can prove to me that i contains the truth, instead of talking in riddles.

and as for being threatened with a backlash from fundamentalists, they cant find me, and no matter how hard they pray, god wont tell them. But as for you and the OP you probably have a case file on some blokes desk at MI5 / MI6, and rightly so insane people are dangerous

[TeePee]

The religion of islam, goes perfect with science. It doesn't say evolution doesn't exist/didn't ever happen. However, we did not evolve from monkeys. Also, things such as ghosts don't go with science, but I have seen them with my own eyes and I'm sure millions of other people have too. Does that mean because of science, they don't exist?

Also, wikipedia is not a good source for anything.

You're right. We didn't evolve from monkeys. We do, however share common ancestry, a long time ago. The apes and the monkeys split into different lines, and we descended from apes. That isn't to say we evolved from gorillas, or any of the other apes that are around today, only that they and we evolved from the same ancestor.

As has been mentioned before, the supernatural and science are not compatible. Things such as ghosts could easily exist as a natural phenomena, either as something we don't understand within a scientific context, or more likely as something with an explanation other than the assumed.

What cannot exist is a god which is, by definition, supernatural. In this respect religion is the enemy of progress, encoraging ignorance, and this should not be acceptable is schools. Sadly there are a lot of ignorant adults who willfully ignore reality to further their own cause, damaging their children in the process. There should be no faith schools, period. The very idea should be abhorrent to modern society.

[zoomee]

well thats what makes the likes of you and 2/3rds of this planet different j1979

Your naivity when it comes to other peoples point of view shows quite clearly - Your unwillingness to read something to prove whether it is true or not - god has given us all minds to choose between what is right and what is wrong - you've just proven that you are unwilling to listen or find out for yourself. (which btw is mentioned in all the scriptures fella about those people who will refuse to believe no matter what proofs are provided - read the scriptures (I'm not just talking about the qu'ran but also the bible, torah and all other religious scriptures)) No point arguing with someone who has a lack of will to be able to comprehend, nor understand anything other than what is slapped into his face.

"and as for being threatened with a backlash from fundamentalists, they cant find me, and no matter how hard they pray, god wont tell them. But as for you and the OP you probably have a case file on some blokes desk at MI5 / MI6, and rightly so insane people are dangerous" /quote

Who said anything about fundamentalists? - just goes to show how un-educated you are in the field of religion. I couldn't care less if MI5 / MI6 had a case file on me - I have done nothing wrong, neither do I intend to. I love the country I live in, work for and have been brought up in. I'm just glad the majority here are not as un-educated as you.

[Byatt]

You're right. We didn't evolve from monkeys. We do, however share common ancestry, a long time ago. The apes and the monkeys split into different lines, and we descended from apes. That isn't to say we evolved from gorillas, or any of the other apes that are around today, only that they and we evolved from the same ancestor.

This really ought to be lesson one for religious people attempting the folly of shouting "zomg the theory of Evolution is flawed" - make sure you know what the current theory says first, please, chaps and chapesses. This should really include the century and a half worth of improvements made since Darwin, too, without wishing to trespass too much on your time...

In the faintest of hopes that you might want to do so, here's a decent link:

TalkOrigins

Sorry to wade in on Evolution when this thread has nothing to do with it, but seriously, get with the program...

even atheists believe there is a higher power.

Eh? The "a" before the "theists" should really lead you to why that statement is totally untrue...

[Byatt]

Muslim children in this day and age are smart enough to handle two different cultures, one at home and one in society. I grew up in a vastly mixed regious area, Sikhs, Muslims, Christians, Rastas, everyone here has a different background.

However, it is our schools, being non-religously motivated that aid us in socialising and coexisting in a way that places like Pakistan or China could never achieve (at least in todays world).

I can sit around a poker table, or pool table at my local snooker hall and I can sit down with anyone and fit in, because we were united in our social upbringing, dispite the differences in our home lives. This is why I love england, this is why I appreciate my youth and upbringing, and this is why I, and many british muslims, sikhs, rastas, buddhists, christians and athiests would give the blood in our veins to defend our country from ignorant foreigners who come to our country to steal our resources, bleed our goverment dry and live a dishonest and outspoken life in contrast to the great british way.

GREAT BRITAIN HAS NO SPACE FOR NARROW MINDED FOOLS!

For those interested, I am a White male from Wolverhampton, one of the most racially and religously diverse areas in England, I have had more friends than I could count, from more backgrounds than I care to list.

Again though, integration is something the country wishes to promote. Diversity is fine, we are a country of many different cultures. The fact of the matter is, we all live under the same roof and under that roof we should be subject to the same rules.

If parents wish their children to be taught in the fashion you describe, they can be taught outside of school hours. Segregating children at the beginning of their education simply removes most chances those children will ever have to become integrated into the society they will most likely live in for the rest of their lives.

You shouldn't be wasting your time and effort on promoting things like this and should instead devote your time to working out how to get people to integrate more effectively.

In an attempt to make my above, wildly off topic post slightly more forgivable, I feel I ought to quote these two posts; they really say everything that needs to be said on this topic, far more eloquently and fervently than I ever could, I reckon; well done, gents.

[j1979]

well thats what makes the likes of you and 2/3rds of this planet different j1979

are you now trying to say 2/3 of the planet have read the koran?

Your naivity

Your naivety, to think words themselves are somehow proof. you are quite clearly off your rocker mate.

[zoomee]

"Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. Infidel means an unbeliever, especially a nonbeliever in Islam or Christianity. A skeptic doubts and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds."

This does not mean an Atheist does not believe in a 'higher power' just not god - my statement is correct.

Reason and Logic is all it takes to blow the theory of evolution out of the water my friend, and to quote: "In the faintest of hopes that you might want to do so, here's a decent link:"
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/u..._evolution.php

resorting to mis-quoting your only solution here J1979? ROFLMAO - 2/3rds of this planet I said believe in a god - that's from all religions.

Ever heard the saying the Pen is mightier than the sword? - These words as I explained (from the qu'ran) have been proven over and over to the world are not written by any man.

but I digress - fancy keeping things on topic guys? - instead of picking on them things that you can 'attempt' to prove wrong?

[j1979]

resorting to mis-quoting your only solution here J1979? ROFLMAO - 2/3rds of this planet I said believe in a god - that's from all religions.

and you all argue about what he/she/it is like and how best to kiss his/her/its arse

Reason and Logic is all it takes to blow the theory of evolution out of the water my friend, and to quote: "In the faintest of hopes that you might want to do so, here's a decent link:"
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/u..._evolution.php

you are indeed a blind man, waste your life devoted to something that you only believe because you were told so by a book.

where as i have seen with my own eyes, proof of mans evolution.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1fGkFuHIu0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CvX_...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K11kn...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eblrp...eature=related

[Byatt]

"Atheist, agnostic, infidel, skeptic refer to persons not inclined toward religious belief or a particular form of religious belief. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. Infidel means an unbeliever, especially a nonbeliever in Islam or Christianity. A skeptic doubts and is critical of all accepted doctrines and creeds."

This does not mean an Atheist does not believe in a 'higher power' just not god - my statement is correct.

I can't see how you take that definition and then say you're correct - what other higher power do you think we atheists believe in if not a God? Do you think all atheists are Deists, or what? At very best, your statement is possibly not completely inaccurate (as a small minority of atheists are deists), to say that it is correct is, to be extremely polite, a bit of a stretch.

Reason and Logic is all it takes to blow the theory of evolution out of the water my friend, and to quote: "In the faintest of hopes that you might want to do so, here's a decent link:"
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/u..._evolution.php

All this article does is attempt to throw doubt at Evolution by shouting "OMG IT IS SO IMPROBABLE". I could go into an aside here about how that isn't really reason or logic - something being improbable doesn't make it impossible.

It's necessary that scientists explain how such an improbable sequence of events came to happen, however - TalkOrigins has a whole section on this here in the abiogenesis FAQ.

Can we leave this here? This god-of-the-gaps stuff got old in the Renaissance, you should abandon it, really, unless you want to assign your chosen God the great and simple task of creating homochirality once, a very long time ago...

[Agent]

This does not mean an Atheist does not believe in a 'higher power' just not god - my statement is correct.

Not quite.

The problem with the term "Atheist" is that its definition widely differs depending on where you look.

While I don't like to quote from Wikipedia:

An implicit atheist has not thought about belief in gods; such an individual would be described as implicitly without a belief in gods. An explicit atheist has made an assertion regarding belief in gods; such an individual may eschew belief in gods (weak atheism), or affirm that gods do not exist (strong atheism).

I'm an Atheist and do not believe in a 'higher power' of any form.

The article you linked is rabbits on about 'chance' - yet the Theory of Evolution doesn't involve ' chance'.

Could chance produce such an organized system from that mud?

Organized? The ecosystem and life on Earth is highly chaotic. Species become extinct often, and if you have never been out into the wild - nature is a harsh and brutal place. Hardly organised by any means.

[TeePee]

Reason and Logic is all it takes to blow the theory of evolution out of the water my friend, and to quote: "In the faintest of hopes that you might want to do so, here's a decent link:"
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/u..._evolution.php

This link is far from decent. It is the common argument from religions that begins with a willfull missunderstanding of the theory of evolution. And then blames it on Satan.

In short, it's a joke.

Here is a perfect example of why religion is so dangerous, and why faith schools shouldn't be allowed. This is utter ignorance, on your part, and you should be ashamed of yourself. Cure your ignorance. Do some reading. Wikipedia is a good start! Learn about evolution and then read this tripe again. Then come back here and tell me why it's so obviously wrong.

You don't have to be smart. You don't have to know everything. You don't have to agree with everything. But don't deliberately be ignorant. Here's an oportunity for you to learn something and improve yourself.

[Hicks12]

Ridiculing 'religious people' or those that to believe in God, is just going to encourage hatred, and promote segregation. If people wish to believe in a particular religion or God, then I find nothing wrong with that, as long as they are not forcing them down people’s throats.

Questioning, and debating their beliefs in a respectful manner is fine, making fun and ridiculing them is not.

QFT

I dont know what is true, i will believe there is a god when i see proof(like state in bible etc) but i will not dismiss this idea, so far i believe in science as it has proof but they cant prove any more than religion can in reality so i do not know. As for saying people who believe in a higher power/god etc are stupid then you are the blind and ignorant fool, you are the minority that ruin this world with forcing people to believe you to be correct. I have no issue with people believing what they want, its their choice and i respect that but you clearly dont show that, are you really sure that god doesnt exist? if so, prove how the universe began. If you can answer that then perhaps your right but as of now you are wrong and a sad person(yup i said it).

Stop hating people for believing a book, can you not discuss this in a civil way? Sorry but disrespect is crossing the line as many people will agree, you will get nothing from that.

As long as religious people are not forcing it to believe something etc then its all fine by me, if they find proof of a god then i will believe.

I think this thread should be closed because its just a spammer.

[j1979]

QFT

As long as religious people are not forcing it to believe something etc then its all fine by me, if they find proof of a god then i will believe.

but an islamic school teaches just that. that god is real and it creationism is fact. so i for one will be against the idea of state funded education, that teaches lies.