Muslim Youths

[Hicks12]

but an islamic school teaches just that. that god is real and it creationism is fact. so i for one will be against the idea of state funded education, that teaches lies.

Sorry i may of got the wrong idea as i havent had time to read through the whole thread as hexus is to slow >.<. I am against segregation in schools it just isnt right, in the bible etc your tought to love one another and so shutting everyone else out is plain wrong. I dont see the point because religion can be taught at home/out of school hours, its wrong to teach that religion is 100% correct and science is completely wrong so it should be kept seperate to schools, cant say they are lieing as in theory they are not but know one knows. The only thing i have against religion is that it starts most of these terrorist bombings and wars/disputes between people, religion is ment to bring people together but it does the opposite which is why i feel religious people need to really look at the big picture while following it.

[staffsMike]

I think it's more that religion is used as a means to end for terrorists. No true muslim can really be a terrorist.. it can't really work that way afaik.

It would still happen without religion but they might struggle to attract people to their cause.

That's not to say there have been horrific religious wars but lets not dwell too much on this lol

[iranu]

Firstly I feel a need to apologise for my niave brother. He speaks for a minority, most british muslims do not feel this way. Quite rightly pointed out - If you want to live and bring your children up in a wholey muslim environment, look to other shores, these are predominantly christian lands we live in.

As most of you have quite rightly pointed out we muslims live in a non-muslim society and should respect the fact that we are allowed to practise our own religion without harrassment for a start. To demand from the government, state run muslims schools is taking things too far. If anything Iftikhar look at educating our own brothers and sisters more so they will help fund private muslim schools just like the jewish community - look to your own before you go preaching to others if this subject means so much to you.

As for religious schools - this is entirely the choice of the parents / child. Just like we have a number of jewish and christian only schools there is nothing wrong with having Muslim only schools. mis-educated children are the fault of their teachers - from both camps. Frustrated muslims are taught to have sabar (patience) according to islam not to vent their frustrations by killing innocents as we have recently seen the media point out to us. IF anything the miseducation is on OUR part (muslims).

As for evolution and the belittling of other peoples religions - I'd recommend you athiests/agnostics keep your views to yourselves - Islam has never refuted science - in fact it goes hand in hand with science and there are still things to this day that we have only just discovered (in science) which is mentioned in scriptures of the past (be they the Torah, Bible or Qu'ran). Just because you have your own niave view of this world we live in doesn't mean others have to think your way or be ridiculed for thinking what they do.

The Theory of evolution has been proved flawed many a time (man came from ape etc.)- Even Darwin himself stated it was only a theory and could not be wholey true as he had only studied a species of bird on two islands. If you get your facts right - Islam for one does not refute the complete theory of evolution but the main concept that athiests / agnostics use to argue there is no god - i.e. The creation of mankind. Oh and if you want to quote pieces of information - please stop quoting from that rubbish called wikipedia which is well known to be doctored by many a cult.

peace.

Sigh. The same old crap spouted time and time again, strawman after strawman -it's tiresome. Please go away and do some learning from non-religious sources to atleast try and understand a) what a theory means in scientific terms and b) what those theories actually say rather than showing your ignorance and spouting what you think they say in order to then knock them down.

Man did not come from an "ape", man and apes share a common ancestor. Please explain to me Human chromosome #2.How can we and other apes possibly not share a common ancestor given it's origin? Hint: the answer won't be in the Koran. Edit: I doubt you know what you are up against so here is a video explaining it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zi8FfMBYCkk

This is the exact reason why we need proper schooling and not religious indoctrination. The Koran and the Bible are incorrect when it comes to the explanation of man, the universe, animals, etc and a lot more besides. All of the evidence points towards evolution. Evolution has been observed in the laboratory too - google Richard Lenski and e-coli.

[iranu]

The ONLY proof you need is the Qu'ran j1979. Anyone who has read it completely can not disagree that no man alive could have written it and its miracles are still amazing science to this day!

Rubbish! I've read it (did so before whilst travelling 10 years ago when I went through Malaysia and Indonesia) and it's nonsensical with regard to science and certainly doesn't amaze science with it's "miracles".

If it wasnt for religion you would not have the advancements that we have in this day and age - Look into your history books and you will clearly see what religion has brought to this world.

Utter bunkum. Throughout history religion has been dragged kicking and screaming in the wake of scientific progress. Biology and Cosmology are causing theists huge problems. Religious societies, especially Islamic ones, are backwards societies and lack the technological and social progress that is seen in freer less dogmatic countries.

Just like you have good and bad agnostics/atheists - the same applies to Debating theirstthose who believe in god, Religion is NOT to blame for the worlds bads - its those people who interpret it wrong (and as such are in a minority)

Yep, I agree with that completely. As an atheist I find it annoying that people blame the worlds troubles eg: war, on religion. However, I will say that religion doesn't help because it is dogmatic and therefore retards thought.

Let me put it another way for those that are statistically(!) minded - 2/3rd's of this planet believe in a religion, That remainder 1/3rd consists of agnostics and atheists - even atheists believe there is a higher power. That makes the agnostics the minority.

What's your point? If you are saying that because the majority believe in a religion or a god then that adds weight to the argument, then you are committing Argument ad Populum - a logical fallacy and therefore demonstratively flawed in logic, i.e, you lose the argument by default.

Secondly I'm not sure that you understand the meaning of the word atheist. What "higher power" is this that you speak of and why do atheists believe in it when they do not have a belief in god?

Debating theists is like shooting fish in a barrel. I wish that we could teach children critical thinking skills, logic and reasoning in schools.

[iranu]

well thats what makes the likes of you and 2/3rds of this planet different j1979

Your naivity when it comes to other peoples point of view shows quite clearly - Your unwillingness to read something to prove whether it is true or not - god has given us all minds to choose between what is right and what is wrong - you've just proven that you are unwilling to listen or find out for yourself. (which btw is mentioned in all the scriptures fella about those people who will refuse to believe no matter what proofs are provided - read the scriptures (I'm not just talking about the qu'ran but also the bible, torah and all other religious scriptures)) No point arguing with someone who has a lack of will to be able to comprehend, nor understand anything other than what is slapped into his face.

Oh the irony. You have clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding of ToE and yet you accuse others of lack of understanding. Where's my FAIL picture?

[iranu]

Reason and Logic is all it takes to blow the theory of evolution out of the water my friend, and to quote: "In the faintest of hopes that you might want to do so, here's a decent link:"
http://www.harunyahya.com/articles/u..._evolution.php

You MUST be joking! Decent? It's nonsense after nonsense. If that's the best you can come up with then you DO NOT understand even the basics of evolutionary theory. It's an argument from irreducible complexity, chance, confusion of abiogenesis with evolution, argument from incredulity, and woo woo (satan indeed!). There is absolutely nothing in that article that has any basis for even remotely challenging ToE. That rubbish has all been seen before and refuted countless times.

Hint: If you want to actually learn something; pick up a text book and read, don't get your information about scientific theories from people who refute science with scripture and not analysis of evidence.

[360bhp]

The Koran and the Bible are incorrect when it comes to the explanation of man, the universe, animals, etc

"etc"...

What part about man, the universe, and animals is incorrect?..................................................... Exactly

I can almost gurantee you have NOT read a full translation of the Qu'ran as you say you have. I don't blame you for lying, as you are someone who doesn't believe in god and have no reason to tell the truth. In your mind you must have no worries about going to heaven or hell. Your idea of hell is probably your cpu running at lower mhz then it's supposed to.

[G4Z]

Oh the irony. You have clearly demonstrated your lack of understanding of ToE and yet you accuse others of lack of understanding. Where's my FAIL picture?

Here you go :

[TAKTAK]

I think you're a nob for thinking I'm stupid for calling him a prat for calling someone an idiot for calling someone else a fool.

*Explodes*


i'm bored of reading about religion this, religion that (cue the, 'don't read the thread then' posts )

can't we have a debate about something that doesn't appear in thesun?!!

religion cause more problems than it is worth!!!

if i started talking about all knowing people that i can't prove exist without silly ficticious books that have been re-written over and over again for years, and insist that i have to beg 'their' forgiveness, and do as 'he' sees fit, then quite frankly i would want to be institutionalised or euthanised immediately!!

if you get rid of religious bozo's then you get rid of alot of the problems in the world! including people insisting on having separate schools for the soul purpose of separating one religion from another!!!

the only purpose religion has is for very pitiful people to cling onto the hope of there being somewhere to go after death... if you that bothered about it, go top yourself and find out quicker!!
or a better solution leave a lasting legacy of self of being on earth for you to be remembered by...

religion was created for control... and they get exactly what they want!

christianity but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDHJ4ztnldQ

to be perfectly honest all religions make as much sense as FSM (but at least the pastafarians actually acknowledge that it is a parody...)

but pastafarians put forward irrefutable evidence for lots of situations, including global warming, which irrefutably shows that the rise in global temperatures is directly linked to the decline in the number of pirates that are alive.. which is true therefore we should all be touched by his noodley appendage, and welcome pastafarianism with open arms

infact, help convert others to the true religion http://www.venganza.org/games/index_large.htm

[Blitzen]

Muslim Youths

Muslim youths are angry, frustrated and extremist because they have been mis-educated and de-educated by the British schooling. Muslim children are confused because they are being educated in a wrong place at a wrong time in state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers. They face lots of problems of growing up in two distinctive cultural traditions and value systems, which may come into conflict over issues such as the role of women in the society, and adherence to religious and cultural traditions. The conflicting demands made by home and schools on behaviour, loyalties and obligations can be a source of psychological conflict and tension in Muslim youngsters. There are also the issues of racial prejudice and discrimination to deal with, in education and employment. They have been victim of racism and bullying in all walks of life. According to DCSF, 56&#37; of Pakistanis and 54% of Bangladeshi children has been victims of bullies. The first wave of Muslim migrants were happy to send their children to state schools, thinking their children would get a much better education. Than little by little, the overt and covert discrimination in the system turned them off. There are fifteen areas where Muslim parents find themselves offended by state schools.

The right to education in one’s own comfort zone is a fundamental and inalienable human right that should be available to all people irrespective of their ethnicity or religious background. Schools do not belong to state, they belong to parents. It is the parents’ choice to have faith schools for their children. Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods. There is no place for a non-Muslim teacher or a child in a Muslim school. There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools. An ICM Poll of British Muslims showed that nearly half wanted their children to attend Muslim schools. There are only 143 Muslim schools. A state funded Muslim school in Birmingham has 220 pupils and more than 1000 applicants chasing just 60.

Majority of anti-Muslim stories are not about terrorism but about Muslim
culture--the hijab, Muslim schools, family life and religiosity. Muslims in the west ought to be recognised as a western community, not as an alien culture.
Iftikhar Ahmad

Who cares?

Lets see what we have then.

1. Muslim children are confused because they are being educated in a wrong place at a wrong time in state schools with non-Muslim monolingual teachers

How are British people to blame for this exactly? It was the muslim parents that decided to have their children grow up in a NON MUSLIM COUNTRY.

2.

They face lots of problems of growing up in two distinctive cultural traditions and value systems, which may come into conflict over issues such as the role of women in the society, and adherence to religious and cultural traditions

AS stated above, where exactly should the confusion lie? Women are treated equally in OUR society. There is NO PLACE for women to be treated as second class citizens in the UK. If thats not acceptable then please do not come here.

3.

The conflicting demands made by home and schools on behaviour, loyalties and obligations can be a source of psychological conflict and tension in Muslim youngsters

Once again, this is the muslim parents that are at fault. If loyalties and obligations to the muslim faith are conflicting with western society, then DO NOT live in the Western society. Its that simple.

4.

According to DCSF, 56% of Pakistanis and 54% of Bangladeshi children has been victims of bullies

So now white westerners are bullying pakistanis are they? Does that work the other way around aswell? Of course it does.

5.

There are fifteen areas where Muslim parents find themselves offended by state schools

And??? If its offensive then go to a Muslim school in a muslim country. What makes you think Britain (or the west in general) should make expensive provision for you?

6.

Schools do not belong to state, they belong to parents. It is the parents’ choice to have faith schools for their children

Most schools belong to the state as it happens. Also, if its the parents choice to have faith schools, then please stop begging for money that I pay into the system to fund them.

7.

Bilingual Muslim children need state funded Muslim schools with bilingual Muslim teachers as role models during their developmental periods

Give me 1 good reason, why I as a British taxpayer, should fund a school for muslim children? I dont want to and shouldnt have to. If our education system isnt good enough for you then go somewhere where it is!

8.

There are hundreds of state schools where Muslim children are in majority. In my opinion, all such schools may be designated as Muslim community schools

That is a truly scary and sickening fact. Schools should be for everyone, not just for a certain culture that assumes its undervalued when in reality are happy to take the lions share when they offer little.

9.

An ICM Poll of British Muslims showed that nearly half wanted their children to attend Muslim schools

Go to a muslim school in a MUSLIM COUNTRY then.

10.

Majority of anti-Muslim stories are not about terrorism but about Muslim
culture--the hijab, Muslim schools, family life and religiosity

Because, when in the western society, the Muslim world is of little importance, interest or desire. If these things are so precious then why not 'populate' a country to which these things are important aswell.

One question THAT NO ONE EVER asks or gets an answer to is this:
If the UK (or the West) is that bad, and give very little to immigrants, why is it being over populated them? If i was living in a country where i didnt feel welcome i would leave and go somewhere that could cater for my every desire.

What is the attraction?
Is it that we are gullible?
Are we seen as a pushover to every foreigner throughout the world?
Is our system somehow easy to cyphon from?
Do we have a HUGE population of goats that need herding?
Do the freebies far outweigh the things that most have to work for?

If the answer to any of the above is no, then why come here?

These are the things that no immigrant never answers.

[usxhe190]

I love how we are all contributing to a spammer's thread. Good work all!

[2Cold Scorpio]

I love how we are all contributing to a spammer's thread. Good work all!

We must be chronically bored.

[j1979]

We must be chronically bored.

Either that or people feel strongly. I dont go to a strict Muslim country and demand a beer!

I used to run an off licence in Manchester, and after the picture of Mohammed was published in Denmark, the sales of Carlsberg went through the roof. My point is people feel strongly about whingeing religious people and the more extreme they become, the most the rational man gets angry. I was livid by the reaction of the Muslim community of that, I mean let’s take a joke here. Poor Salman Rushdie, still fearing for his life.

The Monty python took the piss out of Christianity in a big way, but they never had to go into hiding. Why can’t Muslims take a joke? Ill tell you cause the feel threatened, because they deep down know that the Koran is just like the bible (a fictional book)



It all just feels like a bit of a joke when people are talking about scientific fact and religious people are quoting from fictitious books.

[Blitzen]

Anyone for a bacon sandwich????

[richieuk]

I propose a Hexus anti-religion party should be held!

With beefburgers, bacon baps, loads of alcohol, singing death metal with everyone wearing bikinis *lads too* in public with lots of homosexuals in attendance. Any other suggestions to annoy this guy?

[Blitzen]

I propose a Hexus anti-religion party should be held!

With beefburgers, bacon baps, loads of alcohol, singing death metal with everyone wearing bikinis *lads too* in public with lots of homosexuals in attendance. Any other suggestions to annoy this guy?

I all for your suggestions. Slightly concerned about the attendance requirement though.

Maybe we could all dress up as Salman Rushdie and have a tribute night though