Muslim Youths

[iranu]

There's a difference between showing children that religions exist and what the central tenets of those religions, it's cultural roots and teaching the tenets of a single religion as if it were correct or factual. For example, teaching about slavery does not condone slavery nor produce slave traders. RE, if it's included in a curriculum should also include atheism.

Potentially we are on a slippery slope because once weight is given to teaching the 3 Abrahamic religions with regard to the children making up their own minds then one must then be obliged to teach about every faith ever recorded including things such as Scientology. How can one become a follower of Shinto unless one has heard of it?

Secondly the same goes for teaching creationism in science. Which versions from which religions are you going to teach in science classes? Thirdly, it's not science, because it's not testable. Fourthly teaching the "controversy" would be like teaching that the flat-earthers have a point and that there is equal validity between round-earth and flat-earth theories. There is only controversy in the minds of the uneducated or the wilfully ignorant.

Religion should not get a free pass, it shouldn't be treated with kid gloves or given respect that it doesn't deserve.

[TooNice]

cant you see these people are insane!!!

I still don't see how that justifies encouraging the 'making fun of' or bullying of anyone at school.

Some people likes to link religion with all the miseries faced by mankind, often ignoring that while wars have been waged in the name of a religion, acts of kindness has also been been done in the name of religion. And if it is true that one does not need to be religious to be kind to one another, it is also true that people will continue to wage wars even without religion. I can't, however, see how wrong you can go with a little more tolerance in this world (that goes for religions too).

You may not like the fact that some people believes in things with no scientific basis. But I think there are often more important, or at least immediate things to worry about. Most people can function and contribute to society in spite of their non-scientific beliefs. A farmer who believes the earth is flat and still get on with their jobs. And I'd rather he does that, rather than be distracted by the people who would point and laugh at him. Your Muslim colleagues are doing their jobs they are supposed to do I presume (otherwise it's your manager's job to get rid of them), and again, I find that more important than ridiculing them (which would cause unnecessary friction in the workplace).

Schools teaching religion is child abuse at a greater scale, "their decision" to follow a religion is made by you, the adult and not the child.

While I am not in favour of religion being taught as fact at school, I also disagree with the above statement. For a start, I don't know how anyone can equate something like this (or many other stories on child abuse) to someone preaching a child about Christianity. Every kids who were once scared of ghosts/'the boogie man' eventually grow out of it, and I reckon that threats about 'eternal damnation' will only last that long too.

There are people who started out with a religion who later choose to become atheist, and vice-versa. The way I see it, beliefs in the supernatural will remain for as long as science do not have an answer for everything. And as a result, new religions will be formed to replace the old even if you somehow manage to get rid of the old. It's probably not impossible if you are willing to accept mass prosecutions similar to what happened to Falun Gong in China. Even if I take religion as 'evil' (and I don't - I see it as a mean for some people to cause evil), I still see mass persecutions as an greater evil.

[Ironically, the reason I do not go near a cigarette these days is because I almost choked on one when some irresponsible adult handed me one when I was under 5. I do not endorse this method of putting kids off cigarette - it's just a little OT thing I wanted to share]

[Tidus]

As stated by many people so far I'd have to agree that religion has no place in schools. Children should be taught how to think for themselves and draw their own opinions so they can choose what they want to believe in.

How can you teach science and religion in a school when they contradict each other, you can scrutinize science but to scrutinize religion would be offensive and teachers completely avoid doing so, another problem with religion though is that there is so many of them, when you argue for Muslims in the UK you have to consider all the non Muslim religions (there's 12 main religions and around 4,200 total estimated religions).

[shadowmaster]

the only purpose religion has is for very pitiful people to cling onto the hope of there being somewhere to go after death... if you that bothered about it, go top yourself and find out quicker!!
or a better solution leave a lasting legacy of self of being on earth for you to be remembered by...

So are you trying to say that everyone that believes in a religion/God, etc are pitiful? Do yourself a favour and think about that statement.

[Betty_Swallocks]

The arrogance and closed mindedness of some of the posters on here (on both sides of the argument) astonishes me.

[TAKTAK]

So are you trying to say that everyone that believes in a religion/God, etc are pitiful? Do yourself a favour and think about that statement.

actually TBH, most of that post was aimed solely at Christian denominations... as practically all of their scripture and celebrations were stolen from paganism or are heavily influenced by paganism, it just changes things to reflect one god instead of a polytheism... (and the fact that some denominations try and force it onto you...[i have more respect for most other religions than of christianity])

and mebbe pitiful was the wrong word,(in fact most of the post [part from FSM ]) but it was late and i was cranky

but i don't see why religion should be taught in schools fullstop... i was force fed the bull for almost 11 years and by the end i was sick of it and glad to be out...

if parents want their children to partake in religion then fair do's, but don't force it to be taught in schools, teach them yourselves...

the education system needs to pull it's pants up and stop teaching religion (which has no basis for being taught , apart from Britain following America [90%believe in a god]) and start teaching proper un-dumbed down science (i.e. teach about 'smart' materials that can do the opposite to normal [i.e. nitinol])

and another thing... why does practically every religion have it's own hat style???

edit: and i can see why some people believe in a god (and respect that right if it has been forced on them, and it is what they have grown up with since childhood... but i cannot agree with those forcing it on them)

[j1979]

So are you trying to say that everyone that believes in a religion/God, etc are pitiful? Do yourself a favour and think about that statement.

I think that a belief in a specific religion is pitiful, as what makes the rules and thoughts of a particular religion more right than another. No religion can prove anything.

A thought in the back of the mind that there maybe unexplained forces outside of what we can see is not pitiful, but should still be regarded with scepticism.

my view is its ok to believe that something beyond our control and realms of thought, may exist, but to say you know what this is and how we must behave towards it is true madness. These people are deluded and brainwashed.

[shadowmaster]

and mebbe pitiful was the wrong word,(in fact most of the post [part from FSM ]) but it was late and i was cranky

but i don't see why religion should be taught in schools fullstop... i was force fed the bull for almost 11 years and by the end i was sick of it and glad to be out...

Fair enough, but I don't see why religion should not be taught in schools. What I mean is that RE lessons that cover all religions should continue, children need to know about all of the religions, so that they are not ignorant of other peoples beliefs.

the education system needs to pull it's pants up and stop teaching religion (which has no basis for being taught , apart from Britain following America [90%believe in a god]) and start teaching proper un-dumbed down science (i.e. teach about 'smart' materials that can do the opposite to normal [i.e. nitinol])

Assuming that religion is kept out of the science class room (which it is in the majority of schools in the country), I don't see how it would effect the teaching of science? Whether or not the science we teach in this country is adequate for our children (i.e. not dumbed down), that's a debate for another time.

[TAKTAK]

Fair enough, but I don't see why religion should not be taught in schools. What I mean is that RE lessons that cover all religions should continue, children need to know about all of the religions, so that they are not ignorant of other peoples beliefs.

that was my main problem with the Religious lessons that i had..

the fact that it was supposed to be equal coverage of all religions... but the actual lessons were 95% about christianity... about 5% islam, thats it... no other religions... if it covered all religions then it might have been more interesting but it just seemed to be forcing one religion... (it's why i resented the fact that i got an 'A' in it )

if religion is to be taught in schools it needs to be every religion, not just the pick of what they fancy... and teaching about all religions just isn't feasible... i would much rather have learnt about paganism and mayans and buddhists and a wide range of beliefs, than just mostly christianity wide a side order of islam...

and on the science bit, i know religion doesn't interfere, but it's another thing that ticks me off with the education system.

[Zak33]

Well, bearing in mind the appaling Cut and Paste of the OP, and the rampant disbelief that someone would post it without xpecting a flame war...

it's not a bad thread really. Quite good debate.
But....

Shall I shut it or leave it open?

[staffsMike]

It's no different to the one's we have had before though. This one has already got old and I think the OP has been answered thoroughly.

[Zak33]

I agree....but shall await a few others nudges from you HEXITES before I shut it up.

[TeePee]

I think religion should be taught only as part of history lessons. One term you lern about the ancient greeks, so you learn about Zeus. Next term you learn about the american colonies, so you learn about christianity and witch trials. This puts religion in it's proper context.

[Zak33]

I reckon its thread closure time

Wasn't all bad though