those london floods? for Christians only

[JPreston]

Hang on, I didn't realise this was a thread resurrection. Yea, even as the Lord our God hath surely been resurrected.

I don't even remember the 'Great Floods of Feb 2006'. And at the time, jesus fans were saying it was the end of the world?!?

[fuddam]

entertaining responses, and very much in line with what was said on that docu last night - ie the superior attitude evidenced by many atheists.

oh well, humility is certainly the hardest virtue for anyone to develop. Or should that be, 'evolve'?

c'est la vie.

[g8ina]

oh well, humility is certainly the hardest virtue for anyone to develop. Or should that be, 'evolve'?

evolve ?????

Christians didn't/don't evolve !

[JPreston]

entertaining responses, and very much in line with what was said on that docu last night - ie the superior attitude evidenced by many atheists.

oh well, humility is certainly the hardest virtue for anyone to develop. Or should that be, 'evolve'?

c'est la vie.

I do feel pretty superior here, because I have been happily and successfully living my life for the last 10 months whereas you have probably been stockpiling tins of beans in your loft and trying to herd pairs of animals into a giant rubber dinghy.

It's like the Aesop's Fable about the Ant and the Grasshopper, but in reverse. What moral do we learn from this story...?

[neonplanet40]

I do feel pretty superior here, because I have been happily and successfully living my life for the last 10 months whereas you have probably been stockpiling tins of beans in your loft and trying to herd pairs of animals into a giant rubber dinghy.

It's like the Aesop's Fable about the Ant and the Grasshopper, but in reverse. What moral do we learn from this story...?

LMAO

But seriously fuddam what makes you think im an athiest? Im a Roman Catholic (although not devout as i keep an open mind) and i dont have a superior attitude as you say..... you have pretty much just shown my why i love to take the piss out of christians. You all love yourselves and see you's as the only ones who have something to look forward to after you's die and that the rest of us are doomed.

If we listened to you's all the time there would have been about 360,000 armageddons already. maybe you should learn that most of what you's say is a load of ****e and that religion is something that always changes with society. You just dont clense yourself one day and become a born again christian and your "saved" there and then, that is just stupid. It's what you do your entire life and people do not have to be christians to achieve this. You could be the milkman down the street who never goes to mass or anything but yet is a very good man/woman who has done much to help people and has nothing but goodness in their heart. I mean just because he doesnt go to church does'nt mean he will go to hell does it?

I may have went a bit of topic here but i could argue this for hours. Im my religion class i am the only non devout christian there and i can assure you that no one ever argues with me because they never win without making "their God" sound like hitler.

Neon

[fuddam]

y'all think I KNEW that something would happen on that date? lol.

on the other hand, I was quite prepared to make a fool of myself, just in case it turned out to be true.

If something HAD happened,
a) it would have benefitted some people to know beforehand
b) it would have been selfish of me not to have said something beforehand
c) we wouldn't be having this conversation

so, for me, nothing lost.

[Stewart]

Credability? Wasnt this supposed to be a message from some God botherer?

Still, if you are prepared to make a fool of yourself, then I am prepared to let you make a fool of yourself.

After all, it is Christmas.

[fuddam]

But seriously fuddam what makes you think im an athiest? Im a Roman Catholic (although not devout as i keep an open mind)

well, you have some serious semantics to consider. I attended a catholic monastery for about 10 years, and not one of the monks or nuns I met would agree with the theology you espouse here. Furthermore, if you went to a catholic church, or your parents raised you in the catholic tradition, means pretty much zero. If you haven't already grasped the logic of the apostles creed (which all Christian denominations follow, not just catholics), then you've probably missed the essential difference between Christianity and all other religions: that it is about a relationship, not a tradition / religion.

and i dont have a superior attitude as you say..... you have pretty much just shown my why i love to take the piss out of christians. You all love yourselves

don't think I've ever seen anyone contradict themselves so speedily. lol

religion is something that always changes with society.

again, you following a religion or a relationship? I am not interested in the former.

You just dont clense yourself one day and become a born again christian and your "saved" there and then, that is just stupid.

..ummm, grace is stupid? free forgiveness of sins is stupid?

It's what you do your entire life and people do not have to be christians to achieve this. You could be the milkman down the street who never goes to mass or anything but yet is a very good man/woman who has done much to help people and has nothing but goodness in their heart. I mean just because he doesnt go to church does'nt mean he will go to hell does it?

goodness is in the eye of the beholder, the way you present it. Furthermore, christianity is about accepting Christ, not about good works. The theology your propose is more in line with Islam / Hinduism & Buddhism than Christianity.

in reply to your question, of course church attendance is no guarantee one will go to heaven.

I may have went a bit of topic here but i could argue this for hours. Im my religion class i am the only non devout christian there and i can assure you that no one ever argues with me because they never win without making "their God" sound like hitler.

it's not a competition. there is nothing for you to win. you're just a fence sitter. make up your mind what you believe.

[neonplanet40]

well, you have some serious semantics to consider. I attended a catholic monastery for about 10 years, and not one of the monks or nuns I met would agree with the theology you espouse here. Furthermore, if you went to a catholic church, or your parents raised you in the catholic tradition, means pretty much zero. If you haven't already grasped the logic of the apostles creed (which all Christian denominations follow, not just catholics), then you've probably missed the essential difference between Christianity and all other religions: that it is about a relationship, not a tradition / religion.

Like i said if you would have read fuddam, i am not a devout catholic although i was brought up with it. I beleive there is a God out there but there is so many flaws in christianity that i am studying religion etc to further my knowledge in it and so far it has not changed the way i think. I still see it as hugely flawed.

don't think I've ever seen anyone contradict themselves so speedily. lol

They feel in my class that they are better than me because i am not a born again christian. This is why i dont like them and it shows that they were no different from when they first adopted their "new" religion. As putting yourself above others is a bad representation of christianity. "love thou neighbour" etc etc

again, you following a religion or a relationship? I am not interested in the former.

This is another area i dont agree with. Christianity has to evolve with society or it could become invalid. The way the world is now is alot different than it was in 100BC. I am studying moral ethics natural lawq and theodicys etc atm and can see that alot of them can barely represent todays society. For an example "Thou shall not kill"

I consider this to be flawed. If someone was to attack my family and the only way i could save them was to kill this person would i not? Of course i would. Yet that is against my religion. Or in cases of war? I can pretty much guarantee that the way u live your live now and ur religion is not the same as it was in again 100BC am i not correct? So that does show it evolves with society.

..ummm, grace is stupid? free forgiveness of sins is stupid?

You might be saved but you have to continue to live ur life pure until u die. What i meant was that jsut becuase u are saved doesnt mean thats your work done. get me now?

goodness is in the eye of the beholder, the way you present it. Furthermore, christianity is about accepting Christ, not about good works. The theology your propose is more in line with Islam / Hinduism & Buddhism than Christianity.

in reply to your question, of course church attendance is no guarantee one will go to heaven.

So your saying that even know this man is as good and genuine as anyone can ever get that becuase he doesnt beleive in jesus God will punish him and send him to hell for eternity? Does that not make your god vengeful?

it's not a competition. there is nothing for you to win. you're just a fence sitter. make up your mind what you believe.

I do not solidly beleive in anything. I research to help me choose and someday i will but for now im open minded.

Sorry for any typos

[G4Z]

Neon, I will convince you that the god hypothesis is invalid, un-falsifyable, predictionless and unscientific yet....

The only conclusion to draw is that there is no evidence and that even if you put that aside, who is it the creates this infinitely powerful creator in the first place?

Must be Turtles_all_the_way_down

[Stewart]

who is it the creates this infinitely powerful creator in the first place?

Bob 'the red dart' Sainsbury. But then who created him? Don't ask me, I'll just make something up.

Shall we just all agree to stop shouting at the sky and let it be? Gods given up on us long ago anyway, so if you worship or not, it makes no difference.

[fuddam]

Like i said if you would have read fuddam, i am not a devout catholic although i was brought up with it. I beleive there is a God out there but there is so many flaws in christianity that i am studying religion etc to further my knowledge in it and so far it has not changed the way i think. I still see it as hugely flawed.

understood & appreciated. At the same time, I disagree, as you would expect. If you want answers to those 'flaws', I recommend reading material by Michael Ramsden, or Alistair McGrath (both available via links on www.zactrust.org) or having a looksee at http://www.bethinking.org/

They feel in my class that they are better than me because i am not a born again christian. This is why i dont like them and it shows that they were no different from when they first adopted their "new" religion. As putting yourself above others is a bad representation of christianity. "love thou neighbour" etc etc

agreed - hypocrisy does no-one any favours.

another area i dont agree with. Christianity has to evolve with society or it could become invalid. The way the world is now is alot different than it was in 100BC. I am studying moral ethics natural lawq and theodicys etc atm and can see that alot of them can barely represent todays society. For an example "Thou shall not kill"

Quite the opposite, in fact. If recognising that God exists, that is admitting an absolute truth / law exists. Of course, societies evolve, but people do not. They are just as greedy, selfish, egotistical as ever. There are certain scriptures in the Bible which have a contextual application / context, but one could not, as a Christian, simply discard any scripture one disagreed with. Rather, one would have to compare that scripture to the rest of the Bible, so see how to approach it, together with open discussion with others, in order to decrease the likelihood of misinterpreting those scriptures.

The New Testament did away with so many previous practices (eg sacrificing animals to God), in fact with the entire obedience to LAW, by placing us all under grace, but one is only able to appreciate that by looking at the bible in entirety, to see where God has released us from such a rule-bound existence.

I consider this to be flawed. If someone was to attack my family and the only way i could save them was to kill this person would i not? Of course i would. Yet that is against my religion. Or in cases of war? I can pretty much guarantee that the way u live your live now and ur religion is not the same as it was in again 100BC am i not correct? So that does show it evolves with society.

the commandment is You shall not MURDER, in terms of the Greek / Hebrew, which is why, as a Christian, I could be a soldier / policeman etc. At the same time, your battle is not ultimately with other people; it is spiritual. As such, I would HOPE to be strong enough not to kill someone who threatened my family / myself. I have 3 kids, so it would be pretty difficult. I can just see many on this thread ROTFL but tough cookie. I prefer to follow the example of Christ, ultimately.

You might be saved but you have to continue to live ur life pure until u die. What i meant was that jsut becuase u are saved doesnt mean thats your work done. get me now?

agreed totally.

So your saying that even know this man is as good and genuine as anyone can ever get that becuase he doesnt beleive in jesus God will punish him and send him to hell for eternity? Does that not make your god vengeful?

hehehe, that's an easy one. God will do His UTMOST to get that person to accept the love that He offers, which surpasses anything human. He, absolutely, wants that person to have the greatest peace, joy, happiness, love, contentment possible, as he does for EVERYONE on this thread. Christ did not come to punish, but to save. Literally. And save us from who?

ourselves.

Man is corrupt. We try to be good, sometimes, but ultimately we are flawed. So what God offers, through Christ, is a FREE pass to purity. Because only someone pure can be in His presence. He cannot abide sin in any form, and yet He offers us a FREE cleaning of the slate - no work required (unlike all the other major religions).

The idea of that person going to hell is predicated on this: if someone chooses to reject Christ, that person remains flawed/ corrupt / sinful. As such, they keep themselves from God, out of their own choice. Hell is literally to be separated from God for eternity.

The idea that God could go so far to rescue His creation from it's own flaws as to appear in human form, and allow his creation to crucify Him, is almost beyond the bounds of human comprehension - that depth of love.

Christ came to spread the love, to everyone, NOT to judge or punish or oppress.
- John 3:17: For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.

I research to help me choose and someday i will but for now im open minded.

as you should. And once you choose, that does not mean you will become close minded How could one be close-minded if one knows the truth?

[Stewart]

hehehe, that's an easy one. God will do His UTMOST to get that person to accept the love that He offers, which surpasses anything human. He, absolutely, wants that person to have the greatest peace, joy, happiness, love, contentment possible, as he does for EVERYONE on this thread.

But the fact remains that Hindus, Sikhs, Athiests, etc, etc, will burn in the fires of hell for their sins \ crimes, yes?

[JPreston]

....How could one be close-minded if one knows the truth?

Because one is deluded and wrong, but remains perfectly convinced they are right to the extent that they refuse to consider any evidence or change one's mind?

Dunno, just thinking aloud

[yamangman]

you're just a fence sitter. make up your mind what you believe.

A fence sitter? Blimey. A minute ago 'us atheists' had a 'superior' attitude due to voicing our opinions. So you have more respect for those who are singularly minded now? Hold on a second! In a recent thread you had all-praise for the open minded, and those humble agnostics!

You're sensibilities change more often than a cruise-divas wardrobe.

[fuddam]

A fence sitter? Blimey. A minute ago 'us atheists' had a 'superior' attitude due to voicing our opinions. So you have more respect for those who are singularly minded now? Hold on a second! In a recent thread you had all-praise for the open minded, and those humble agnostics!

it's one thing to claim to be agnostic; it's another to claim to believe in a deity yet deny the most basic beliefs associated with that deity.

He claimed to be catholic, yet his following statements denied their basic tenets. understand?

now that he has clarified his position, we have moved on. have you?