ID Statistics and Info kept on yourself

[Blub2k]

yes there is but it is not a job he is talking about, he is talking about it being a requirement as a citizen of the UK not a job, in his case I see where he is coming from.

[TeePee]

I know that. But it's still not a good reason to permenantly mutilate yourself. Not unless he really had something to hide.

[Rave]

What did you do?

I mean, you must be trying to hide something pretty severe if you are considering mutilating yourself in order to hide from it.

Nope. In fact I probably have the least to fear from ID cards since I'm a white middle class male with no criminal record- I really am not in much danger of being targeted for more random stop and searches by the police for example. I am prepared to do whatever it takes to throw a spanner in the works because I will never be required to justify my continued existence in the country in which I have lived all my life and paid taxes for the last 5 years. As far as I'm concerned, the government works for me, not the other way round.

You're going too far for this to just be a civil liberties issue... Maybe we shouldn't be giving advice, if this is conspiracy to pervert...

What, conspiracy to pervert a law that doesn't exist yet? Yeah, that's a crime innit.

Rich :¬)

[TeePee]

So you will mutilate yourself just to make a point? Surely there are more constructive things you can do? Go and wave a banner at a bunch of people who don't care, or something.

Sure, I can see there are problems with ID cards, particularly that they put an infrastructure in place which could be used for more extreme control of the populace, but the current proposals will only assist law enforcement, help which they badly need, and so will save lives.

Which hurts you more, ID cards or cutting the tips of your fingers off, so you have to hold your ID card with both hands.

[Rave]

So you will mutilate yourself just to make a point?

No, I'll mutilate myself so there's no way they can put my fingerprints on the database. That is not just making a point, I'm protecting myself from having my liberties infringed.

Surely there are more constructive things you can do? Go and wave a banner at a bunch of people who don't care, or something.

Yeah, well as you say they don't care, the moronic populace of this country seem to think that ID cards will stop 'Illegal Immigrants', and since they're The Biggest Threat Facing Our Country Since The Nazis (copyright all tabloids), that's obviously a good thing.

but the current proposals will only assist law enforcement

Remind me how again?

help which they badly need, and so will save lives.

Yeah, but spending £3bn on the NHS would save infinitely more, and wouldn't involve any infringement of civil liberties.

Which hurts you more, ID cards or cutting the tips of your fingers off, so you have to hold your ID card with both hands.

Haha, very glib.

Rich :¬)

[TeePee]

Firstly, I agree that the money would be better spent on the NHS.

How will they help law enforcement? It will allow them to run an ID check on people a lot more quickly. Of course, most career criminals won't carry them, but the drunks arrested on a night out, etc, will.

I understand the arguments against them, probably more than most, but on the whole I think they will be beneficial. Of course, I'd wave my banner (at the people who don't care) against laws which allow them to start setting up checkpoints, etc.

But as for mutilating yourself, don't you think you're pruning a rose bush with a chainsaw?

[daniel_owen_uk]

They are gonna have to change the data protection act to do this anyway so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Rave]

How will they help law enforcement? It will allow them to run an ID check on people a lot more quickly. Of course, most career criminals won't carry them, but the drunks arrested on a night out, etc, will.

Right, so the problem of drunken violence in this country is a result of the police not being able to identify drunks is it?

I understand the arguments against them, probably more than most, but on the whole I think they will be beneficial.

Lots of things would be beneficial- I suspect that if you forcibly sterilised the poorest 25% of the population, the crime rate would go down in 15-20 years. Just because something would be beneficial doesn't mean it's not morally wrong and reprehensible.

But as for mutilating yourself, don't you think you're pruning a rose bush with a chainsaw?

No. What do I need fingerprints for anyway? If I can remove them permanently without affecting the use of my fingers in the long term, I hardly think it'll be much of an inconvenience.

Rich :¬)

[TeePee]

Merely one example, a quickly processed drunk means the police are free to go out and arrest a few more, and so drunken violence is reduced. Of course £3Bn spent on more police would be more useful.

I wouldnt say sterilizing the poor would be beneficial, certainly not to the average law-abiding poor person. It's about more than crime rates.

They're your fingerprints, remove them if you will. Just don't go holding any fragile objects.

[Rave]

I wouldnt say sterilizing the poor would be beneficial, certainly not to the average law-abiding poor person. It's about more than crime rates.

What else is it about then?

Rich :¬)

[FarmerJon]

I have to say that although i dont like the idea of all my personal details being on file, I do support the ID card idea. I grew up in Belgium where national id cards are obligatory from the age of 12, & they're useful both for police & for citizens. If you dont have a driving license in the UK then you dont have any acceptable ID at the moment. I personally like being able to prove who i am if needed, and the police being able to be sure of who I am means that should I do something stupid they dont need to arrest me to be sure of my ID, but simply check my ID card. If kept at a low level of invasiveness (not using fingerprints/retina scans/penis measurements) then i think that these cards are mutually beneficial, and I for one quite like the idea

[TeePee]

What is there in the lives of poor people other than crime rates?

Or did you mean ID cards? Well they will be useful for travelling between coutries in the EU. They will also hopefully reduce benefits fraud (and I don't mean illegal immigrants).

[Punky]

the filth have already got my fingerprints on file from when i got arrested, so i aint got much choice about givin em to them, i guess they'd be transferred directly to the database. are those fingerprint thingys off Gone in 60 Seconds on sale anywhere? or you could just burn em off with acid, or use a bloody hot frying pan and push ur fingerprints straight down onto it so you get flat ends and no scars? either that, or some dodgy surgeon will probs remove em for ya, in return for a large amount of cash. i see no reason for the government to have all our personal data, its just a show of action so Bliar doesnt look like he's doing what he really is - feck-all

[3dcandy]

I guess everyone's kinda approaching this from the wrong angle....I believe that actually removing the fingers is probably the best way....but could be a bugger in the future!

If you actually believe in this enough to dramatically alter your body's natural form, then fair enough, BUT I don't think there is an easy method to this. Unless you actually alter a high percentage of your fingerprints, "normal" computer analysis will find out....plus you've got all your fingers on both hands to alter.

Bit extreme in my opinion!

[Rave]

Or did you mean ID cards? Well they will be useful for travelling between coutries in the EU.

What, in a way that a passport isn't?

They will also hopefully reduce benefits fraud (and I don't mean illegal immigrants).

The vast majority of benefit fraud is due to people lying about how much they earn, not lying about who they actually are. ID cards will help very little.

Rich :¬)

[Rave]

If you dont have a driving license in the UK then you dont have any acceptable ID at the moment.

Um, yes you do- passport, birth certificate, National Insurance card etc.

I personally like being able to prove who i am if needed, and the police being able to be sure of who I am means that should I do something stupid they dont need to arrest me to be sure of my ID, but simply check my ID card. If kept at a low level of invasiveness (not using fingerprints/retina scans/penis measurements) then i think that these cards are mutually beneficial, and I for one quite like the idea

Yeah, well the problem is that if the cards don't contain biometric data linked to a central register, then they're basically no more use than the forms of ID we have at the moment. I wouldn't particularly mind a less intrusive ID card as long as carrying it wasn't compulsory, but that's not what's being proposed.

Rich :¬)