New ATI Tuner Card.

[exAndrzej]

Hi Satnav,

Not sure when you joined the thread - so you may have missed the earlier parts of the discussion when you say...

...we don't know the facts because ATI won't tell us...

If you go back to 4th February you will find Hrlslcbr quoting from the response that he got directly from ATI

...response from ATI customer support regarding TV Wonder Elite: The TV Wonder Elite is not suppported with the ATI MMC software

I have seen a Sapphire box myself (also available at http://www.sapphiretech.com/awards/image/media_243.jpg) and I can't find 'MMC' on the outside
As with any retail situation, I'd suggest that customers who bought the product because they had specifically been told by the place where they bought the card that it supported MMC before they made their purchase, should check back with the store that they bought the card from

...a complete "stonewalling" on the answers to these questions...

Again, it seems that you might have missed the posts from about 3 weeks ago when we confirmed the situation precisely
What I find a little confusing is that I already responded to this question directly from you in that time frame...

No Satnav - you are not reading that wrong. Only products that are shipped with MMC will have an MMC download available. Theatre 550 Pro cards are not shipping with MMC

This is something that was confirmed when the HEXUS Hierarchy met with the key guys from ATI's multimedia team over the weekend

Work will carry on with MMC for the All-In-Wonder range of products (200) - but not for the Theatre 500-based products

As far as 'when can we get it' goes - it is already shipping in North America and will be in the PAL regions very soon (SECAM a little later)

[backlund]

Andrzej-
I think what everyone wants to know is why ATI specifically said in press releases, and a number of other areas, as well as the Sapphire manual, all say that it will support MMC. It would be one thing if Sapphire jumped the gun and misprinted their manual, but ATI's website specifically says it is supported in the press releases, and it even USED to say it on the product page, until it was suddenly changed.

[bubbaganoush]

The Powercolor manual says you can use MMC too.

I hope one of the third party TV apps add support for this instead....

[satnav4]

Andrzej-
I think what everyone wants to know is why ATI specifically said in press releases, and a number of other areas, as well as the Sapphire manual, all say that it will support MMC. It would be one thing if Sapphire jumped the gun and misprinted their manual, but ATI's website specifically says it is supported in the press releases, and it even USED to say it on the product page, until it was suddenly changed.

Andrzej

How does ATI respond to the fact that the press release in Sept. 2004 said the 550 was supported by MMC? Your previous response states I should pursue Sapphire (and others PowerColor) because they misled me about MMC.
1) What do you say now that it appears ATI misled me and Sapphire and PowerColor?
2) Would Sapphire and PowerColor have put that information in their manuals on a whim?
3) Should I drop this because it was not on the outside of the box when it was in the press release and in the manual?
4) Can you send me a press release stating the 550 is not and will never be supported by MMC?
5) How does ATI propose to compensate me and others for the misleading information?

Your responses are anxiously awaited.

S.

[Rys]

Just to confirm, there's no MMC support for Theatre 550 PRO. ATI's stance is as follows (and I'm paraphrasing a little and this isn't an official word from them in any way, just my take):

Implemented as it is in the Theatrix product and others, as a 'simple' TV tuner product, ATI would rather assist Intervideo and Cyberlink in creating the bundled applications for the 550 PRO to control it, rather than internal effort on bringing in MMC support which, at the moment, drags them away from other projects they're working very hard on.

ATI are committed to further updates to MMC for their other products, including Theater 200-based stuff, but rolling in 550 PRO at the moment isn't a priority and you should use the other software bundled with the card, or something like BeyondTV, to make use of it.

Anyway, I have the basis for my testing ready to rock with PAL hardware, so look out for a review of a 550 PRO from me in due course, along with something else from ATI.

Cheers,

Rys

[exAndrzej]

...why ATI specifically said in press releases...

That was the plan at the time, but then it was decided to continue with Theatre 200 in the X800XT and X600 Pro AIW products alongside MMC and to have the Theatre 550 Pro products targetted at the MCE market (which is the kind of answer I was posting here around 3 weeks ago )

I checked with our guys in Canada and they confirmed to me that the ATI site product descriptions were updated before the product was shipped

Would you agree that the descriptions are now all correct for North America ?

[hrlslcbr]

Would you agree that the descriptions are now all correct for North America ?

I agree...

[hrlslcbr]

ATI would rather assist Intervideo and Cyberlink in creating the bundled applications for the 550 PRO to control it...

It seems thay haven't started helping cyberlink...
Really, has anyone liked PowerCinema? No. It's still slow and buggy, and doesn't use all the potential of the card. I would have no problems on using PowerCinema if it worked as it ought to.
Cheers.

[backlund]

No, I wouldn't agree. Just a page back or so there are posts of screenshots of the ATI site with areas that still mention the MMC support. I guess it just comes down to people not liking being lied to, which is exactly what has happened here. Personally, I use my 550 for MCE, so MMC isn't a priority for me. BUT, the current iteration of the drivers are hopeless. The 550 is supposed to be the holy grail of cards, yet the picture is less sharp than my Hauppage 150, and the the audio is about 30-40% lower than the 150 as well. I really have to crank my TV to get a comfortable audio level with my 550 card. I would like to play with MMC to see what kind of better results can be achieved. OR, better yet (in my case, not everyone elses) an addon for MCE, like a small applet that goes into the more programs section, that would allow us to tweak settings for the card would be great. I really want to like the card, but until the picture improves just a bit more, Hauppauge still has you guys beat. I have a lot of ghosting issues with my 150 card that my 550 doesn't have, so if you can sharpen the picture a bit more with a driver update or something, you'll have a surefire hit on your hands with the MCE crowd.

[satnav4]

That was the plan at the time, but then it was decided to continue with Theatre 200 in the X800XT and X600 Pro AIW products alongside MMC and to have the Theatre 550 Pro products targetted at the MCE market (which is the kind of answer I was posting here around 3 weeks ago )

I checked with our guys in Canada and they confirmed to me that the ATI site product descriptions were updated before the product was shipped

Would you agree that the descriptions are now all correct for North America ?

Points:

1) I have seen no press releases withdrawing the previous announcement.
2) The press release confirming MMC support, as of Friday, was still published on the website.
3) I have seen no information on the website withdrawing the statement of MMC support.
4) I continue to see the MMC GUI on the advertisement for the 550. (You see I am a loyal customer who owns an ATI AIW 9800 Pro who uses MMC).
5) I have a manual that says it has MMC support.

You have not yet cleaned up your tracks, and you cannot undo what you did. All you can do is make it right by full refund (including return shipping) or provision of decent software with MMC like functions--perhaps BTV if that will work; oh, and something for time and aggravation.

S.

[satnav4]

Some more screen shots of ATI's website today:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

I submit ATI is still using MMC to promote sale of the 550.

S.

[jonaslasky]

hi Jonas,


if you knew the simple facts you'd know how very silly you've made yourself seem.

HEXUS met with some very senior personnel from the ATi Multimedia team over the weekend, and as a result typically objective HEXUS editorial which should go some way towards addressing matters raised in this thread - and much more - will appear shortly.


SNIPPED

it’s one of HEXUS’ raisons d'être to get to the root of stuff that people want to know about, and i think we’re doing a pretty good job right?

cheers,

PD

If it takes us speaking a bit agressively to get a more explicit response from manufacturers, then it's worth looking like a fool

As for Hexus.... providing a venue for this forum is good enough for me. But you guys go above and beyond that. I can't imagine anybody here being displeased with Hexus.

As for ATI... I can only say, someone up in the hierarchy must have gone mad. This is not any way to conduct business. If this is the final word from ATI, then I've already bought my last ATI product for a long long time.

Even from a real world point of view, it can't possibly take that much code to make the Theater 550 Pro work properly. Is it really worth angering some of their customers, just so they can avoid writing a few lines of extra code? I thought ATI was just a bit above the cutthroat crowd, but I guess they're just as greedy as anybody else. They're already hopping to Bill Gates' bidding to ensure their contract for the XBox game system. It would serve them right if the XBox becomes extinct next year.

Jonas

[hrlslcbr]

Andrzej:
I don't know if I missed the post when this was answered, but I'll ask you again.
What happened with the dolby support? Is it hardware or software encoded? If it is software encoded, does PowerCinema encode it?
Cheers.

[spacded]

At the risk of getting shot or getting a PM

Does anyone know the PAL uk release of this card?

[myth]

I am confused now...

Ati claims no MMC suport...

There web site says there is suport....

So, If there isnt suport why dont you remove that false advertising from your web site? Or is it that there is suport? I smel a scandel...

[jonaslasky]

Andrzej:
I don't know if I missed the post when this was answered, but I'll ask you again.
What happened with the dolby support? Is it hardware or software encoded? If it is software encoded, does PowerCinema encode it?
Cheers.

Good Questions!

I hope it is hardware supported so at least we could write our own codes if nothing else. At this point it seems official that ATI has now thrown us to the dogs of Microsoft Inc. It looks like we're going to have to fend for ourselves.

I wish they just came out and honestly told us that their main goal with the Theater 550 Pro product was to please their new master, Microsoft. Instead, following Microsoft's lead, they entrapped us into having to buy more of Microsoft's overpriced (mediocre) products.

I think they should immediately change the Theater 550 Pro page on their web site to emphasize that it only works with MCE, and it is not supported by the MMC software. Not doing so would be literally criminal, in light of recent developments.

I wonder if www.zipzoomfly.com will still take this card back.

Jonas