New ATI Tuner Card.

[satnav4]

Jonaslasky

My 150's do not record in preview mode using GBPVR. Both cards together use, at most, 2% CPU resources on my P4, 2.8 gig, 1gig ram system. Why should I not expect this of the 550? Is it carved in stone somewhere that an ATI product must always record in preview mode?

I should add that I never expected my ATI products to decode. I have a Media MVP for that. I just expect the new 550 to encode without alot of CPU use--that's what hardware encoding is all about.

S.

[jonaslasky]

Jonaslasky
My 150's do not record in preview mode using GBPVR. Both cards together use, at most, 2% CPU resources on my P4, 2.8 gig, 1gig ram system. Why should I not expect this of the 550? Is it carved in stone somewhere that an ATI product must always record in preview mode?

S.

I guess you should read everything more thoroughly.

I'm just going to quote my earlier post because I already addressed this:

"The good thing about BeyondTV is that it doesn't display anything when it's just doing a SCHEDULED recording. I think that's the closest your going to get to seeing how much CPU power is spent on MPEG-2 ENCODING."

WATCHING Live TV or "TIME SHIFTED" is a totally different matter. Anyway what you're talking about has nothing to do with 550 pro. You're talking about a software issue. The 550 or any other card doesn't decide how recordings are done.

I'm recording with BeyondTV right now as I type and CPU utilization with everything going on is between 2% and 5%.

Jonas

[satnav4]

Jonas

I am sorry I am a little dense, but I read again, and I don't see where you quoted your CPU utilization with the 550. I am glad to see it is only 200% higher that 2 150's running in tandem.

Also, I guess I wasn't clear in my point. Let me restate:

"Is it carved in stone somewhere that ATI cannot provide an included non-preview mode recording software, so that we must get overpriced Beyond TV at a cost of almost $90 with that license they make you buy for a 3rd tuner?"

So the choice is:
1) Get a 150 retail for $80, and run it with low CPU usage with 2 other cards utilizing GBPVR (free) for a total cost of $80;
2) Get a 550 for $83, and run it with low CPU usage with 2 other cards utilizing Beyond TV (cost with 3rd tuner license $85) for a total cost of $168.

Not much of a choice, particularly where many report the encodes from both cards are very close in quality.

However, I do appreciate your feedback. I just have not yet decided to open the box with the 550 that sits by my computer. I was a bit put off by comments that the 550 will not have MMC support, when I understood it would. I know MMC still has the preview mode problem, but at least I would have full filter and bitrate control.

Re Beyond TV, are there any adjustable settings. I used a trial once, and I recall only hardware cards had configurable encode settings.

Thanks

S.

[jonaslasky]

[QUOTE=satnav4]Jonas

Also, I guess I wasn't clear in my point. Let me restate:

"Is it carved in stone somewhere that ATI cannot provide an included non-preview mode recording software, so that we must get overpriced Beyond TV at a cost of almost $90 with that license they make you buy for a 3rd tuner?"


Again you're talking about software... nothing to do at all with the 550.

I doubt that MMC will force you to run in a permanent preview mode even when you only want to record. Where are you getting this information? No one seems to know anything about MMC 9.04 except you.

If I were you I would have returned that Theatrix a looooong time ago. This is impacting your health far too much to be worth it. You paid 83 bucks for the card and you'll probably end up suffering a heart attack wringing your hands trying to decide whether to open it or not.

The bottom line is if you're happy with your 150... that's it... don't torture yourself... just laugh at us fools who were stupid enough to actually open the box ...LOL!!

I really don't see how two TV cards recording in tandem can use less than 2% of CPU... I'm not recording anything right now and CPU utilization is about the same as earlier whn I the Theatrix was recording.

Perhaps you're overstating how good the 150 are, in fact I'm sure you are.

Jonas

[satnav4]

Jonas

It's time for your medicine. Think pleasant thoughts and go to your happy place.

Yes I am talking about software--the card won't work without it. The point made by many is that the 550 may be great hardware--but it has bad software. I have never used MMC 9.04; I do run MMC 9.03.

I see your resort to the ad hominem attack--that's Latin--look it up (hint--it's illogical). I am trying to help others out there who want to run an efficient Tivo like system.

Re your attack on my credibility about CPU usage with 2 150's in use, here are some screen shots of the system in action:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

The resting usage is between 1-2%. The spikes are from startup and running the paint and capture programs. Perhaps you need a better system to achieve my results.

S.

[satnav4]

Some more proof that 2 150's draw almost no resources:

[IMG][/IMG]

[IMG][/IMG]

S.

[jonaslasky]

Re your attack on my credibility about CPU usage with 2 150's in use, here are some screen shots of the system in action:

S.

You're still not getting it. The point is, my CPU utilization (remember this is on my set up, NOT yours) is the same whether or not I'm RECORDING with the Theatrix.

In other words, it's not using the CPU for encoding. I suspect your 150s aren't using the CPU either. You 150 is not any better at CPU utilization.

At first I thought you were joking about being dense but now I see you were quite serious I wasn't "attacking" you on your claim about your CPU usage, rather I was questioning your claim that the Theatrix is using 200% more of CPU resource than your beloved 150.

But then it's stupid to discuss anything with someone who reads and reads and reads and understands little or nothing.

If I were you I would have returned the Theatrix already

Anyway, it's not like I'm some ATI fan. This is the first ATI I've ever owned and I think it's pretty good. In time, all PCTV software will support it (even the free ones) and we haven't even seen MMC 9.04 yet. The thing that makes it hard for some software out there is the audio is handed off internally, not through the LINE IN as other tuner cards. But for someone who's trying to transfer Laser Disk content, that's not really an issue, because audio would come in through LINE IN anyway. VirtualDVD (a free software) provides excellent AV synching if you ever have problem with out of synch audio.

I think the real problem is that we all got hot and bothered by ATI's fantastic claims, which at the moment haven't been fully fulfilled. I hope they do something with MMC 9.04 that justifies all those claims.

Jonas

[satnav4]

Jonas

First you said this:

[QUOTE=jonaslasky]

Jonas

I really don't see how two TV cards recording in tandem can use less than 2% of CPU... I'm not recording anything right now and CPU utilization is about the same as earlier whn I the Theatrix was recording.

Perhaps you're overstating how good the 150 are, in fact I'm sure you are.

Jonas

Then you said this:

At first I thought you were joking about being dense but now I see you were quite serious I wasn't "attacking" you on your claim about your CPU usage, rather I was questioning your claim that the Theatrix is using 200% more of CPU resource than your beloved 150.

You have no credibility. If we can't trust you on something simple like this, how can we trust your observations about the 550. But stick to your personal attacks, it helps deflect attention from your inconsistencies. I see this all the time in my practice of law.

I continue to try to provide useful--and true--information to others who are deciding on whether to get the new ATI or the somewhat new 150. The 150's I have are working very well with low CPU usage--period.

Jonas, this silly bickering is not doing this thread any good. We can insult one another, compare members or meet on the playground by PM. Let's stick to the topic from here on out. Deal?

S.

[jonaslasky]

Jonas


You have no credibility. If we can't trust you on something simple like this, how can we trust your observations.


S.

nice try... but you yourself said that perhaps I should get a better computer to get the same results as you are getting. and you're absolutely right. Your computer is faster than mine, however that has nothing to do with any of our tuner cards.

The bottom line is your 150's aren't using your CPU to ENCODE, and the same is true for the Theater 550 Pro.

I can certainly understand why you would be upset that ATI didn't release software worth a damn concurrent with their hardware. I think we are all in agreement about that.

However for the sake of accuracy, the Theater 550 Pro chip really does have hardware MPEG-2 encoding and it has very low or zero CPU utilization while encoding in MPEG-2. My task manager stats is the same whether or not it's encoding, or if Beyond TV is totally off, or if the Theatrix is completely taken out.

Return the Theatrix already

Jonas

[neutron]

Please guys, do not spoil this forum.
Let's close the CPU discussion

I bought last friday a WinTV PVR-150MCE (bulk)
My first impressions (as ATI user from Rage 128 AIW..)

TV tuner quality is much better when compared to my ATI 9800 AIW
Lipsync could be better, it is not always 100% matching audio/video
(maybe I am very critical on this one..., This is one of the reasons that I am interested in the Theater 550Pro)
DVD standard play cappture (MPG2, VBR average 6000 MB/s max 8000 MB/s)
is quite good
- sharpness OK (somewhat better or similar to my ATI 9800 AIW when connected to an external TV tuner via the SVHS in and recording DVD quality)
- some captures do show a jump followed by macroblocks.
(I am not sure if this has to do with compresion of the Cable TV channel or the card yet)
- in general the capture is rather good. It handles motion quite well
(I use video clips from channel like MTV to evaluate)
The programs WinTV2000 and scheduler actually work (are you listening ATI)
It was the first time I could program a recording with a program from the card supplier.

Erik

[myth]

Why is my thread going down hill? That CPU useage "1-2% is being used by taskmanager... And 150's arnt that great! I have tried Media Center and I'm not impressed, Not to mention I had driver problems. I see no reason why ATI is focusing so much atention to it.... Its still quite buggy

[satnav4]

neutron

I have not had lipsync problems with 150 encodes, but I have from time to time in DVD folders authored from the raw mpeg stream. I have corrected this by running the raw mpeg through PVAStrumento before authoring.

It is my hope the 550 eliminates the occasional use of the intermediate processing with PVAStrumento. Regrettably, with the 550 it appears you trade one problem for another. You may avoid postprocessing, but you lose fine bitrate control available on the 150.

Somewhat summarizing:

1) If all you are doing is recording TV shows to watch and erase, the 150 is great.
2) If you will burn your recording, you will want to use PVAStrumento with 150 encodes to avoid possible lipsync problems.
3) If you don't mind encoding in 1000 block increments, the 550 should fill the bill, and by many accounts has better success with fast motion.

Perhaps Jonas or others can tell you whether a long encode, say 1.5-2 hours, has lipsync problems after the creation of DVD folders. If so, you may still need PVAStrumento, and you won't save any steps.

When I have the time to redo all my wiring, I will install my 550 and report back on this point.

S.

PS Give GBPVR a shot, and you will not use WinTV2000 again, except for perhaps s-video encodes.

[jonaslasky]

Please guys, do not spoil this forum.
Let's close the CPU discussion

I bought last friday a WinTV PVR-150MCE (bulk)
My first impressions (as ATI user from Rage 128 AIW..)

TV tuner quality is much better when compared to my ATI 9800 AIW
Lipsync could be better, it is not always 100% matching audio/video
(maybe I am very critical on this one..., This is one of the reasons that I am interested in the Theater 550Pro)

Erik

You won't be disappointed with Theater 550 regarding AV synch, and the tuner is definitely better. As good or better than my high-end Sony TV. ATI definitely delivered on noise reduction.

But for those who are happy with what they have, why bother worrying about anything else (Theater 550 or anything else)

Jonas

[satnav4]

So myth, what is your recommendation on card and software. I know what is bad, what do you think is good.

S.

[thatdude90210]

Doesn't PVAStrumento strip out frames when it encounters sync issues? I remember using it when I had a Creative DVR, that thing had hardware video encode but software audio encode so it had massive sync issues. Because of that, PVAStrumento used to take out too big a chunk for my taste.

Anyway, I tried Virtualvcr, I couldn't get audio from it. But it does show the potential of this card, that you can get actual live TV and record in other formats like AVI... both of which can't be done on a pvr 250, don't know if the 150/500 can. It also shows that future Dscaler support could be possible.

[myth]

So myth, what is your recommendation on card and software. I know what is bad, what do you think is good.

S.

Bad:

• Drivers
• Software
• ATi suport
• Lack of MMC

Good:

• potential
• price
• hasn't caught on fire yet......