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About LinkBacksNo.Originally Posted by Fuddam
No it didn't.
No.
No it didn't.
lol. wait and see. *you* will.
How can you write such bollocks with a straight face?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/nottingham/cont..._feature.shtml
David Blaine makes a huge noise about his accomplishments because he
a) wants to get rich
b) wants to build his profile
c) is in show business
Just as I said here earlier, any report of a miracle is greeted with massive disdain (not proof, mind you). The ultimate purpose of any miracle is to bring glory to God. How many newspapers are in that business, hmmm? Miracles are *not* to elevate people in any way.
if you're really serious about your pursuit of truth, you'd go looking for yourself, not sit on a forum making easy statements.
oh, for the record, my father's leg grew in similar fashion to the one described here by the BBC, my mother has had 8 different cancers disappear on her, I watched my wife's miscarriage turn around within seconds of deep prayer (as did 2 other miscarriages my sister prayed for), blah blah blah
Note: none of my examples prove God's existence, nor are they intended to do so. They simply point in the direction that a curious and open mind should investigate.
Of course this naturally leaves open the question, "Well if he's so all powerful and good, why doesn't he do a lot more for more people?". Arguably a lot of the people who are healed - the beggar for instance - probably aren't really devoted believers and were simply in a bad situation at the right time.
New Orleans, pretty Christian city (like most of America), still got blown to bits, God didn't really step in and make a miracle there did he?
The burden of proof lies with the person making the ridiculous claims. You can't criticise somone for treating these claims with distain if the claimant offers no evidence.
As for the 'Proof' you offer, firstly this is only 'evidence'. Then start being objective and consider what we actually see, which is two shoes moving closer together. It's hardly good evidence. Where are the before-and-after X-Rays?
We have to consider every posible cause of what we are seeing:
A psychosomatic recovery?
Hysteria?
A real recovery which went un-noticed until the insert was removed from her shoe?
Fakery?
Something beyond our current understanding?
We have to apply Occams Razor to these posibilities, and based on even this weak evidence, the last outcome can be ruled out.
You're a smart guy fuddam, when will you start actually applying any of your critical faculties to religion?
Indeed.
It is strange, is it not, that the almighty Gawd will step in and help this begger with his ingrowing toenail, but stands (floats?) by and does nothing while widespread sexual abuse of children is going on... going on in his own house. These evils commited by his own chosen representatives, for want of a better word.
Still, forget all the kiddies being raped, he maded an old mans toes get better! PRAISE THE LAWD!!!1
Well, I don't think god has to act like we think he should act. Why should he? I don't think god is there to stop all evil etc.
And as for you quoting that he done that miracle, well, that was done a long time ago mate. You can't put that into the same context as what is happening today in the world.
Plenty of miracles happen today that have been documented.
The church may have lots of sick, twisted pervs serving the congregations but that, in my view, has nothing to do with god. They will get thier come-uppance. Maybe not in this life but certainly in the next.
That has nothing to do with God... but this tramp with a sore foot, God is on the case.
He does indeed move in mysterious ways.
Thing is, Miracles do happen. You can read about lots of them on the net, in books, libraries etc etc. If you decide they are all a load of rubbish then fair enough. That is your perogative. Lots and lots of 'Miracles' have gone unexplained by science, how come?
God may have helped that tramp. I don't know as i have not read the full story. If he did choose to help the tramp and then on the other hand 'ignore' the pervs then all i can say to that is that some people deserve to be helped while others (Pervs etc) are damned and will feel the wrath of god when he feels it is the right time.
How are we to know that one of these pervs is going to get his come-uppance from god? A month, a year, several even, he may be affected by some pain of his own? Who knows!
Maybe god judges these people in his own way. In his own time?
You have proof of this, of course?
Again, these 'miracles' that science has been unable to explain... you have some examples for me?You can read about lots of them on the net, in books, libraries etc etc. If you decide they are all a load of rubbish then fair enough. That is your perogative. Lots and lots of 'Miracles' have gone unexplained by science, how come?
Yeah... you see, what you are doing now, is making it up as you go along.God may have helped that tramp. I don't know as i have not read the full story. If he did choose to help the tramp and then on the other hand 'ignore' the pervs then all i can say to that is that some people deserve to be helped while others (Pervs etc) are damned and will feel the wrath of god when he feels it is the right time.
Lets get back to the miracles, that really did happen, and that science has accepted happened and then tried and failed to explain.
Examples please.
EDIT - Can I just add that I *love* the way you put forward being able to read about them on the net as proof.
That is fantastic.
Also, before you give me this list of miracles, remember that things like the virgin birth do not count, as science is not unable to explain these - science does not accept that this happened. Nor does anyone with any sanity, to be honest.
Last edited by Stewart; 24-07-2008 at 11:51 PM.
On the subject of faith healing, one question for you.
why doesn't god heal amputees?
HEXUS FOLDING TEAM It's EASY
Did i say in my post that by reading about them that is proof they are real? No. I am saying you can 'Read About Them!' Just google and you will see. Lots of 'Information' out there.You have proof of this, of course?
Again, these 'miracles' the science has been unable to explain... you have some examples for me?
Yeah... you see, what you are doing now, is making it up as you go along.
Lets get back to the miracles, that really did happen, and that science has accepted happened and then tried and failed to explain.
Examples please.
EDIT - Can I just add that I *love* the way you put forward being able to read about them on the net as proof.
That is fantastic.
'Miracles' have gone unexplained by science. Notice how i encapsulated the word 'Miracle'. Known as miracles to the people the world over. How else would you explaing the many documented 'Miracles'?
What does it say in the dictionary about the word 'Miracle':
–noun 1. an effect or extraordinary event in the physical world that surpasses all known human or natural powers and is ascribed to a supernatural cause.
2. such an effect or event manifesting or considered as a work of God.
3. a wonder; marvel.
4. a wonderful or surpassing example of some quality: a miracle of modern acoustics.
Duh. Because he works in mysterious ways. Innit obvious?
As quoted by you:
He does indeed move in mysterious ways.
Yes mate, brilliant. Now I say again - examples please. And of course, the proof that they happened.
Why will *I* see in particular? Am I the chosen one? Or are you just making another of the vague prophetic-sounding announcements that are the stock-in-trade of evangelical Christians?
I couldn't see the video, but I'm sure it provides absolute proof that God did it. However, she's now "speaking to congregations across the country about her experience"? Why not to the medical community?
Until we see signed medical records to show she was injured before and fine after, without any other extenuating circumstances, then it's all just say-so and therefore contemptible nonsense.
Also, do you want to see an amazing feat of limb growth? Put both arms straight out in front of you. Swing your right arm down and round in a vertical circle until it returns to sit next to your left arm. *Oh noes* Satan has shrunk your right arm!. But that is OK my child, for the power of Christ commands you to stretch your right arm beyond itself and, lo and behold, it is restored to its healthy self. Alan be praised!
And you think the christian church (as well as any other religion) shouldn't/wouldn't seek publicity and acceptance for the 'great feats' brought about by its god and members?David Blaine makes a huge noise about his accomplishments because he
a) wants to get rich
b) wants to build his profile
c) is in show business
What better way to silence and convert the naysayers than to show them a proven miracle; real scientific evidence that a twisted foot was instantly uncurled by the power of god? Would that not help tremendously in bringing god's word to the vast majority of the world's population who don't belive in the trinity?
Just as I said here earlier, any report of a miracle is greeted with massive disdain (not proof, mind you). The ultimate purpose of any miracle is to bring glory to God. How many newspapers are in that business, hmmm? Miracles are *not* to elevate people in any way.
If you're really serious about your pursuit of bringing God's word to the world, you'd show us some undeniable and plausible proof of his existence, not sit on a forum making easy statements.if you're really serious about your pursuit of truth, you'd go looking for yourself, not sit on a forum making easy statements.
.oh, for the record, my father's leg grew in similar fashion to the one described here by the BBC, my mother has had 8 different cancers disappear on her, I watched my wife's miscarriage turn around within seconds of deep prayer (as did 2 other miscarriages my sister prayed for), blah blah blah
So Christians don't get ill then? Or they do, but get better almost straight away, as soon as God gets around to it?
Medical records / signed Doctor's statement or its bollocks.
They certainly don't prove God's existence, simply that you have an inventive, if somewhat worrying, mind.Note: none of my examples prove God's existence, nor are they intended to do so. They simply point in the direction that a curious and open mind should investigate.
Are you suggesting that medical practitioners should forget their wealth of medical knowledge developed over centuries of careful study and simply pray to God for their patients to heal? Should they abandon the techniques and medicines that have been time-and-again proven to treat or even cure almost all of the world's illnesses and injuries and instead trust God to find a cure in his good time? Should we be stopping research into the treatment of currently incurable diseases, such as Cancer and HIV, even though several tests are showing promising results which indicate that a preventive or cure is not far away, because God's miracles are the only way we'll see a cure?
An answer to the above even close to 'yes', even if you dress it up in platitudes, will require astounding arrogance, unless you can provide proper evidence to back it up.
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