Who's waiting for Nvidia Fermi

[Terbinator]

The low end parts are 40nm and DX10.1 so have evolved in someway.

[ajones]

So it's more complicated than I first thought...

nMarketing

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

So it's more complicated than I first thought...

nMarketing

This interview with Richard Huddy is worth reading:

http://www.bit-tech.net/bits/intervi...ent-and-dx11/5

This statement that the chap made is also interesting:

"Let me say that I suspect that through 2010 it's possible there will be moments where we don't have the fastest graphics card, but I expect that for the majority of 2010 we'll have the fastest card you can buy. I've good reason for believing that but I can't talk about unannounced products or any of the stuff we're doing to secure that. What I can say in reference to what I said earlier: we're working on two thrusts of physics which are very important and also the three companies on enabling GPU physics-"

I assume that there cannot be a much faster HD5970 variant as that is already pushing the power envelope. This is going to be an interesting year for graphics card releases methinks!

[Rollo]

This interview with Richard Huddy is worth reading:

http://www.bit-tech.net/bits/intervi...ent-and-dx11/5

This statement that the chap made is also interesting:

"Let me say that I suspect that through 2010 it's possible there will be moments where we don't have the fastest graphics card, but I expect that for the majority of 2010 we'll have the fastest card you can buy. I've good reason for believing that but I can't talk about unannounced products or any of the stuff we're doing to secure that. What I can say in reference to what I said earlier: we're working on two thrusts of physics which are very important and also the three companies on enabling GPU physics-"

I assume that there cannot be a much faster HD5970 variant as that is already pushing the power envelope. This is going to be an interesting year for graphics card releases methinks!

The problem with all that is Mr. Huddy said it not only without the benefit of any knowledge of NVIDIA's upcoming parts for this year, but also without working samples of ATI's next gen parts. (at least to our knowledge)

When is the last time a part taped out and engineering samples were in the wild and no one had heard a peep about it? Right, never, because that always makes rumor sites, if not news.

[Biscuit]

The problem with all that is Mr. Huddy said it not only without the benefit of any knowledge of NVIDIA's upcoming parts for this year, but also without working samples of ATI's next gen parts. (at least to our knowledge)

When is the last time a part taped out and engineering samples were in the wild and no one had heard a peep about it? Right, never, because that always makes rumor sites, if not news.

are you actually having ago at Richard Huddy because he has discussed unreleased/not fully developed hardware?

All you have done is bang on about how the Fermi is going to trollop the 5*** even though for months there was no actual evidence of it apart from the odd bit of rumour.

Adding hypocrisy to your act really doesnt help Rollo

[Rollo]

are you actually having ago at Richard Huddy because he has discussed unreleased/not fully developed hardware?

All you have done is bang on about how the Fermi is going to trollop the 5*** even though for months there was no actual evidence of it apart from the odd bit of rumour.

Adding hypocrisy to your act really doesnt help Rollo

I'm not looking for "help".

And yes, I'm "having a go" at Huddy, or at least his speculation.

Rollo: Talks to people at NVIDIA about their parts they have in house, and can compare to already released 5***. Actually has gamed on GF100s, seen them benched.

Huddy: Made those predictions never having seen a GF100, or talking to anyone who had run one. (or what follows GF100)

If I were to say "The GF100 will best ATi's next part", I'd be doing what I "had a go" at Huddy for. As my info came from people with experience with the GF100 and the 5870, and then my own eyes, I was in a better position to predict than Huddy.

Make sense?

[Pob255]

Rollo, the issue in part is that you cannot prove any of what you've said and we cannot disprove any of what you've said, there for you're talking about an unreleased card vs a released card, which cannot currently be proved one way or the other, there for it's also rumor.

At the moement ATi do have the fastest card you can buy and as the fermi release date is still just 1q 2010, it could be as late as April before we can actually buy one.
That gives them a good head start of nvidia and if ati have got enough head room in their chips for more tweeking and pushing the clocks higher then they can wait for nvidia to release then release new versions that push them enough to just out strip the nvidia card and retake the lead.

This is just my speculation of course, as neather you nore I know what ati's plans are, yet somehow I don't think they are just going to sit back and watch when the new nvidia cards come out.

[Biscuit]

I'm not looking for "help".

And yes, I'm "having a go" at Huddy, or at least his speculation.

Rollo: Talks to people at NVIDIA about their parts they have in house, and can compare to already released 5***. Actually has gamed on GF100s, seen them benched.

Huddy: Made those predictions never having seen a GF100, or talking to anyone who had run one. (or what follows GF100)

If I were to say "The GF100 will best ATi's next part", I'd be doing what I "had a go" at Huddy for. As my info came from people with experience with the GF100 and the 5870, and then my own eyes, I was in a better position to predict than Huddy.

Make sense?

But you where saying things before the 5870 was even released... as the case stands now what you said may well be true but Nvidia said the exact same thing when ATI released the 4870x2.

You seem to think its acceptable to pick at things you, and Nvidia have been guilty about yourselfs.

Its not like he made a huge press ordeal about it either (which is what Nvidia do when their owner has a well shaped poo), he just mentioned it in a small low key interview.

ATI have had the 5870 released for a number of months now and they have had as much information as we have all had about how the new Nvidia cards and surely will have taken it into account whilst working on their own things. Nvidias card will be coming out fairly soon but this is after ATI have nearly sold 1 million units and i cant see that many of those people wanting to jump straight to a new card.

ATI are also working with open source applications of similar things to what Nvidia have been banging on about for the last 2+ years. Take Sony as an example here, how many times have they been bit in the ass for their proprietary technology? Blu Ray is a big break for them but even that has come at the dawn of digital distribution so isnt exactly doing great. I still dont see that many titles which run Physx or 3D, certainly not any im particualy interested in.

[MadduckUK]

This is just my speculation of course, as neather you nore I know what ati's plans are

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17274/1/

Fudo does

[jim]

I'm not looking for "help".

And yes, I'm "having a go" at Huddy, or at least his speculation.

Rollo: Talks to people at NVIDIA about their parts they have in house, and can compare to already released 5***. Actually has gamed on GF100s, seen them benched.

Huddy: Made those predictions never having seen a GF100, or talking to anyone who had run one. (or what follows GF100)

If I were to say "The GF100 will best ATi's next part", I'd be doing what I "had a go" at Huddy for. As my info came from people with experience with the GF100 and the 5870, and then my own eyes, I was in a better position to predict than Huddy.

Make sense?

If you, who doesn't work for nVidia, has gamed on a GF100, then the idea that ATI employees know nothing about it is just ridiculous. I'd suspect that they're far more informed about it than you are. If they aren't, then they aren't doing their jobs properly.

You're then saying that he's done it without access to ATI's next gen parts, which is even more ridiculous. Nobody has even mentioned next-gen parts yet - it may be that ATI have got something else to pull on nVidia, perhaps a newer revision of the current gen 5990 that they will release in order to take back the crown when necessary. Even if it is the next-gen, your assertion that you know whether ATI have got samples or not is a bit silly.

You think that ATI know nothing about the performance of the GF100, but that you know what samples the ATI engineers are currently working with? That's bizarre in the extreme.

[peterb]

<---snip

Adding hypocrisy to your act really doesnt help Rollo

I'm not looking for "help".

And yes, I'm "having a go" at Huddy, or at least his speculation.

Rollo: Talks to people at NVIDIA about their parts they have in house, and can compare to already released 5***. Actually has gamed on GF100s, seen them benched.

Huddy: Made those predictions never having seen a GF100, or talking to anyone who had run one. (or what follows GF100)

If I were to say "The GF100 will best ATi's next part", I'd be doing what I "had a go" at Huddy for. As my info came from people with experience with the GF100 and the 5870, and then my own eyes, I was in a better position to predict than Huddy.

Make sense?

Looking at the sublties of English and American English, I thing biscuit left out a comma - so that his last line was meant in the sense of

"Adding hypocrisy to your act really doesnt help, Rollo"

In other words, the perceived hypocrasy (which I am not commenting on) doesn't help the case for Nvidia that you are putting forward in your capacity as a member of the Nvidia Users Group. (Rather than "it doesn't help Rollo")

(and my apologies to Biscuit if my interpretation is incorrect)

[Georgy291]

so basicaly from what i can see..........

most just buy the ati cards now...
and those who wait are only waiting for ati cards to drop im price

not much hope for green team is it?

[Rollo]

so basicaly from what i can see..........

most just buy the ati cards now...
and those who wait are only waiting for ati cards to drop im price

not much hope for green team is it?

1. It's no surprise ATi probably has higher sales than NVIDIA now, they have their next gen parts out now, NVIDIA doesn't. OTOH, we don't actually know ATi has higher sales. Last year when it seemed like every person on every forum on the planet was declaring "OMG! 48XX FTW! No one is buying NVIDIA cards!", ATi gained 2-3% marketshare, andn still trailed by a long way.

2. You discount the fact that like their owner AMD, ATi does not have the mindshare of the public. People on forums are not "the public", they're computer hobbyists who aren't afraid to buy off brand and experiment. (e.g. I was using AMD cpus for years when it was a mish mash of drivers and prayers to use their motherboards) The public sees the NVIDIA logo on every game they launch, knows NVIDIA is the market leader, and buys NVIDIA like they buy Intel.

3. ATi's current generation offers only one feature beyond running games fast: Eyefinity. NVIDIA's new cards will offer that, Eyefinity in 3d, 3d, PhysX, CUDA, more flexible/robust multi GPU drivers. Enthusiasts have seen that developers are indeed adopting PhysX and 3d optomization in popular games (e.g Batman, RE5, Dark Void, Mirrors Edge) and don't want to be left out. 3d is starting to take off in a BIG way- it was all over CES. Last but not least, NVIDIA cards will offer superior DX11 (and DX9/10) performance) and people will always pay for fastest.

So while you as a consumer might think "NVIDIA has no chance", I think your analysis is flawed.

[Rollo]

If you, who doesn't work for nVidia, has gamed on a GF100, then the idea that ATI employees know nothing about it is just ridiculous. I'd suspect that they're far more informed about it than you are. If they aren't, then they aren't doing their jobs properly.

You're then saying that he's done it without access to ATI's next gen parts, which is even more ridiculous. Nobody has even mentioned next-gen parts yet - it may be that ATI have got something else to pull on nVidia, perhaps a newer revision of the current gen 5990 that they will release in order to take back the crown when necessary. Even if it is the next-gen, your assertion that you know whether ATI have got samples or not is a bit silly.

You think that ATI know nothing about the performance of the GF100, but that you know what samples the ATI engineers are currently working with? That's bizarre in the extreme.

I've signed an NDA with NVIDIA and receive parts/information before they're available to the public. The only way ATi could have information on NVIDIA parts before me is if they steal it- I think they're an honorable company that desn't resort to such tactics.

So I feel fairly comfortable in saying I had information on the performance of NVIDIA's unreleased parts relative to ATi's released parts prior to Mr. Huddy.

I likely still have more info than Mr. Huddy- has nothing to do with him "doing his job", has to do with me thinking people are by and large honest, and that people who have signed NDA with NVIDIA don't break it, and ATi doesn't seek it.

I guess I could be naive, and ATi could be involved in industrial espionage, but until they're convicted of it I won't believe it.

[Terbinator]

so basicaly from what i can see..........

most just buy the ati cards now...
and those who wait are only waiting for ati cards to drop im price

not much hope for green team is it?

Those that buy the cards now and those that bought the very few cards in September is what Nvidia will be aiming for first. Its well know there card is gunning for the 5870 and i'd imagine those that are buying the high-end 58xx parts now and in September are more akin too 'the latest & greatest' as opposed too ''this computer needs to last me for 3+ years'' - are they really going to be bothered about splashing out again for the fastest card - which may or may not be even faster than the tweaked summer chip from ATi ?

[dangel]

*cough* dx11 *cough* too!

Fermi looks interesting - but it's going to be big power, big heat and without a doubt big price. Bummer really. TBH I hope ATI push out something to match up to it (or come close enough to split the market on price/performance ratio) because at the end of the day that'll prevent nVidia charging silly money for their cards. Again.

People should remember the vast majority of GPU sales are OEM and completely outside consumer choice (they buy a desktop/laptop) and so these high end parts are, at best, a halo product with little real impact except on enthusiasts. I'm still waiting for a game that makes me need/want to o'clock my 280 - let alone buy a new card..