Who's still playing WoW then?

[madocks]

Any boss with Mass fear = Shaman in each group with tremor totem.

Ok, tremor totem has 5 second pulses, meaning that it cures fear once per 5 seconds. If fear is cast 0.1 secs after the last pulse, you have 4.9 seconds of mayhem. In the early days of nefarion we used 3 shamans in MT group to allow for lowest possible fear duration. If we then include one shaman in the other 7 groups your taking 10 shamans into the raid - i think not eh

You dont wanna know how many 10% wipes we have had cos MT got feared while stance dance was down and tremor totem didnt proc in time. Giffff fear ward.

Any boss needing kiting shaman at 4 corners + earthbind totem.

Didnt alliance just use 1 paladin in the old days?

Sure you don't get BoK, but Shamans add 1 spell reduction per group, WF totem , STR totem, for melee groups

Firsty spell reduction - we use to have an advantage on huhuran, they nerfed it. In fact most spells from Boss content the spell reduction is imune

Lets talk about rogues, sure we lay grace of air and strength down. Find me a rogue that would rather use this combo if given the choice of BOK and -30% affro reduction.

Plus maybe you get the boss down to final few % of health and MT dies, Shaman = NUKE NUKE NUKE dead boss on final few % hehe.

Nah, at that point we are renewing our 60 - 120 second destroyable totems while alliance are looking at their huge CD timer on their buffs

Overall alliance have it easier, but not quite as 1 sided as i think you make it.

[madocks]

Lets take a look at most fights

Molten core:
Lucifron - Alliance easy (Magic decurse from paladins. Horde has to bring more priests)
Magmadar - Alliance easy (Fear ward)
Gehennes - No real advantage
Garr - Alliance slightly (Constant moving, out of range of totems for buffs. Alliance travels with them)
Geddon - No real advantage
Shazzy - Horde, shaman purge (how do alliance overcome this?)
Sulfuron - Alliance (We dedicate 2 healers per tank, 1 of them must be a priest for magic dispell. Alliance have paladins. Hordes also have problems moving, out of range of totems for buffs. Alliance travels with them)
Golomag - Pretty easy for both really
Majordomo - Same for both
Ragnaros - Paladin gives 30 yard fire res, shaman gives 20 yard. 20 Yards is not enough for the shaman to stand on the outer ring and buff the inner ring (Special placement ftw). Shamans FR totem lasted for 60 secs before needing renew.


Easy stats : Alliance 5, Horde 1

BWL
Razorgore - Horde with earthbind
Vael - Alliance with -30% agro since old time
Broodlord - Alliance with -30% agro, + lotsa hp for tanks
Firemaw - Same
Ebonroc - Same
Flamegor - Same
Chromagus - allaince with uber dispelling paladins, also the 20% madness your tanks have uber hp!
Nefarion - Fear ward ftw!, shamans get controlled by neffy and lay WF for neffy, imagine a 4k hit getting WF, instakill. Oh hang on, your 10k tanks absorb that dmg np

Easy stats: Alliance 4, Horde 1

Onyxia
Alliance - Fear ward ftw, -30% affro ftw!

Easy stats: Alliance 1

Totals Alliance 10 - Horde 3

Yes im biased, would like to see the same list from an alliance point of view. What fights do you see an advantage being given to horde

[Butcher]

Garr's not really an alliance advantage since he strips all your buffs off.

Also it's aggro (as in aggression) not affro (as in big hair).

Think you overestimate the boost in HP from BoK also - it's 10% stamina not 10% HP, and horde have taurens with 5% bonus HP which means the difference is pretty small in reality.
A quick comparison, a warrior in T3 gear, fully buffed: Human: 10709, Tauren: 10519
That's a massive 190 hp difference, oh noes! Bleating on about the HP difference makes it sound like you're making excuses, since it's not a big difference.

The main advantage alliance have from paladins is three-fold:

- Blessing of salvation means much lower aggro for everyone in the raid. This is a big deal in BWL, but much less of an issue in other dungeons.
- Blessing of wisdom gives a lot more healer and caster mana than mana tide totem, and judgement of wisdom increases that advantage further.
- Blessing of kings gives more DPS than windfury / grace of air.


Incidentally, horde isn't that bad off - they got the world first kill on Kel'Thuzad

[madocks]

A quick comparison, a warrior in T3 gear, fully buffed: Human: 10709, Tauren: 10519

Whats the differance on a tauren in teir 1 kit, also an orc in tier 1?

Any idea on the same info in tier 2 also ?

[Butcher]

Difference is percentage based so it'll be lower in lower end gear. Orc is about 500 HP down (vs tauren) in T3 gear.

A naked human with BoK has less hp than a naked Tauren FWIW.

[madocks]

Yeah, he also gets +10 in herbalism too

[Butcher]

Humans have nice racials actually - +5 swords and +5 maces are very nice for melee characters and 5% spirit is good for casters. 10% rep isn't bad either.

[Geist]

A quick comparison, a warrior in T3 gear, fully buffed: Human: 10709, Tauren: 10519

umm you have those health numbers incorrect. Last time Rok fully buffed up he was at 15916.

oh and that wasnt with full T3

Buff me!

[Butcher]

Excluding specials like last stand and life-giving gem.

The exact buffs were:
motw, fort, blood pact, flask of the titans, elixir of fortitude, chimaerok chops.

You can get more with a zanza pot or lung juice, zandalar buff, and the aforementioned specials. I just used a reasonable set of raid buffs as an example.

Our MT topped 12k at the start of loatheb yesterday, but he had all the above buffs, and the 5% buff from the tower in EPL.

[Geist]

oh... you noticed them

I'm missing a couple items atm from my tank setup but I tend to sit around the 7-8k hp through raids although I dont bother with all the food buffs . The Tauren racial is a noticeable hp difference though (I'm an Orc).

[Mblaster]

Also it's aggro (as in aggression) not affro (as in big hair).

Think you overestimate the boost in HP from BoK also - it's 10% stamina not 10% HP, and horde have taurens with 5% bonus HP which means the difference is pretty small in reality.
A quick comparison, a warrior in T3 gear, fully buffed: Human: 10709, Tauren: 10519
That's a massive 190 hp difference, oh noes! Bleating on about the HP difference makes it sound like you're making excuses, since it's not a big difference.

Using one of our Orc tanks as example:

477 + 70 + 16 = 563 stamina buffed.

10% extra stamina makes it 619, that's 560hp difference only including the standard stam buffs.

With a Tauren tank:

474 + 70 + 16 = 560 stamina buffed.

5% extra stamina means 588 stamina buffed, that's 280hp difference, both of those in T2 and AQ loot.

[Butcher]

With a Tauren tank:

474 + 70 + 16 = 560 stamina buffed.

5% extra stamina means 588 stamina buffed, that's 280hp difference, both of those in T2 and AQ loot.

Taurens get 5% HP not 5% stamina. There's a fairly big difference.

I already stated that Orcs are around 700 HP down on a human with full buffs.

[madocks]

Today - mads left wow

He has his life back

[Geist]

Dont you mean "He now has a life." Any previous life would clearly have expired and been deleated by now

[Allen]

Today - mads left wow

He has his life back

Can I have your gold please?

[e-LAN-go]

Today - mads left wow

He has his life back

I don't have the words to express my disbelief but good for you .